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+--- Thread: FFS leave GST alone Chippy (/showthread.php?tid=2395)
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - zqwerty - 15-08-2023
My rates have just increased by $66 every 3 months after rebate so these small incremental GST decreases don't help much and only coming in next year so almost useless really.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Oh_hunnihunni - 15-08-2023
I am grateful for every drop in the bucket these days, because costs seem to be on a never ending climb. So, even not much is a good thing on this budget.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - C_T_Russell - 15-08-2023
(13-08-2023, 11:01 PM)harm_less Wrote:(13-08-2023, 10:35 PM)C_T_Russell Wrote: One thing that GST should be removed from is our property rates.That can be justified in that property rates contribute towards services provided by councils. As GST is a Goods & Services Tax
Rates is essentially property tax that goes to local govt.
Placing tax on a tax makes no sense. Cost of living is getting ridiculous.
If labour want to help households, take the GST off the rates, I would save the best part of $400 per year if that was removed.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - harm_less - 15-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 10:11 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote:And then you get the situation of landlords not passing their rates deduction onto their tenants, in much the same way as the F&V supermarket scenario.(13-08-2023, 11:01 PM)harm_less Wrote: That can be justified in that property rates contribute towards services provided by councils. As GST is a Goods & Services Tax
Rates is essentially property tax that goes to local govt.
Placing tax on a tax makes no sense. Cost of living is getting ridiculous.
If labour want to help households, take the GST off the rates, I would save the best part of $400 per year if that was removed.
A far better approach would be to zero tax the lowest income bracket. Simple, focussed and uncorruptable, but I seem to remember someone else suggesting that approach just lately.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - C_T_Russell - 15-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 10:19 AM)harm_less Wrote:(15-08-2023, 10:11 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote: Rates is essentially property tax that goes to local govt.And then you get the situation of landlords not passing their rates deduction onto their tenants, in much the same way as the F&V supermarket scenario.
Placing tax on a tax makes no sense. Cost of living is getting ridiculous.
If labour want to help households, take the GST off the rates, I would save the best part of $400 per year if that was removed.
A far better approach would be to zero tax the lowest income bracket. Simple, focussed and uncorruptable, but I seem to remember someone else suggesting that approach just lately.
They should though and landlords should be made to prove they have dropped it. Besides it would be tax deductable for a landlord anyway wouldn't it?
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - king1 - 15-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 10:11 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote:(13-08-2023, 11:01 PM)harm_less Wrote: That can be justified in that property rates contribute towards services provided by councils. As GST is a Goods & Services Tax
Rates is essentially property tax that goes to local govt.
Placing tax on a tax makes no sense. Cost of living is getting ridiculous.
If labour want to help households, take the GST off the rates, I would save the best part of $400 per year if that was removed.
rates isn't really a tax , it is a compulsory payment for council services...
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Kenj - 15-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 10:23 AM)king1 Wrote:(15-08-2023, 10:11 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote: Rates is essentially property tax that goes to local govt.
Placing tax on a tax makes no sense. Cost of living is getting ridiculous.
If labour want to help households, take the GST off the rates, I would save the best part of $400 per year if that was removed.
rates isn't really a tax , it is a compulsory payment for council services...
In that case, GST and Income Tax et al are not taxes? Just payment for govt. services?
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - king1 - 15-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 10:28 AM)Kenj Wrote:(15-08-2023, 10:23 AM)king1 Wrote: rates isn't really a tax , it is a compulsory payment for council services...
In that case, GST and Income Tax et al are not taxes? Just payment for govt. services?
ultimately they are contributing to government services yes, but I think the distinction with rates is that you are paying for specific, tangible, identifiable services... With GST and Income Tax, it just goes into the Govt coffers and divvied up...
Councils are just another taxpaying organisation, they are required to collect and pay GST as does any other organisation.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - yousnoozeyoulose - 15-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 10:11 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote: If labour want to help households, take the GST off the rates, I would save the best part of $400 per year if that was removed.
Yes, let's directly give landlords more money. That's a great idea. They're the ones that really need it. Not a day goes by when I don't see a busload of landlords get out in front of the food bank and patiently line up to get some provisions. It brings a tear to the eye.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - harm_less - 15-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 10:23 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote:Just the same as the purchase cost of F&V for supermarkets is tax deductable, it's far too easy for the supplier in both cases to absorb the benefit of GST exclusion without passing it onto to their customers (or tenants).(15-08-2023, 10:19 AM)harm_less Wrote: And then you get the situation of landlords not passing their rates deduction onto their tenants, in much the same way as the F&V supermarket scenario.
A far better approach would be to zero tax the lowest income bracket. Simple, focussed and uncorruptable, but I seem to remember someone else suggesting that approach just lately.
They should though and landlords should be made to prove they have dropped it. Besides it would be tax deductable for a landlord anyway wouldn't it?
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Lilith7 - 15-08-2023
Reading this thread reminds me again just how old & cynical we're becoming - or possibly that's just me.
It does seem to happen though that, as we age we tend to develop a fairly jaundiced view of politicians in general & a few of them in particular.
And not unwarranted, either.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Kenj - 15-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 11:51 AM)Lilith7 Wrote: Reading this thread reminds me again just how old & cynical we're becoming - or possibly that's just me.
It does seem to happen though that, as we age we tend to develop a fairly jaundiced view of politicians in general & a few of them in particular.
And not unwarranted, either.
I first voted about 60 years ago. I only wish was that I had written down all the promises and all the results of the promises, Then compare.
I don't have a lot of faith in politicians, sorry.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Lilith7 - 15-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 12:23 PM)Kenj Wrote:(15-08-2023, 11:51 AM)Lilith7 Wrote: Reading this thread reminds me again just how old & cynical we're becoming - or possibly that's just me.
It does seem to happen though that, as we age we tend to develop a fairly jaundiced view of politicians in general & a few of them in particular.
And not unwarranted, either.
I first voted about 60 years ago. I only wish was that I had written down all the promises and all the results of the promises, Then compare.
I don't have a lot of faith in politicians, sorry.
If anyone should apologise, it should be that lot in the beehive. And all politicians everywhere, past & present.
Fat chance...
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - nzoomed - 17-08-2023
Would be better to apply it to all "food" (except alcohol, soft drinks and confectionery) rather than fruit and veges, makes no real sense and is not enough to make tiddly squat to most people.
$4 or so per week is not much saving to be even worth the hassle.
Also they were saying that the people who need the savings the most are likely to buy more canned food or other processed food instead.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Oh_hunnihunni - 17-08-2023
It is a start. But first they have to be reelected, and to do that they need to start playing nicely with the Greens...
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Lilith7 - 17-08-2023
(17-08-2023, 11:29 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It is a start. But first they have to be reelected, and to do that they need to start playing nicely with the Greens...
That would be an excellent start - surely they must realise that.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Kenj - 17-08-2023
Dopey bastards have just put up a bill today to enable under 16s to vote, firstly in local body elections.
Yah knows what's coming next don't yah!!
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Oh_hunnihunni - 17-08-2023
What? Making it illegal for over 65s to vote? On account of how dopey we can be at times?
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - SueDonim - 17-08-2023
(15-08-2023, 10:23 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote:(15-08-2023, 10:19 AM)harm_less Wrote: And then you get the situation of landlords not passing their rates deduction onto their tenants, in much the same way as the F&V supermarket scenario.
A far better approach would be to zero tax the lowest income bracket. Simple, focussed and uncorruptable, but I seem to remember someone else suggesting that approach just lately.
They should though and landlords should be made to prove they have dropped it. Besides it would be tax deductable for a landlord anyway wouldn't it?
For residential property owners, rates are income tax deductible, like some* other expenses. GST itself is not charged or claimed on anything related to residential property - ie tenants don't pay it so landlords can't claim it.
*In pretty much all other areas of running a business, all expenses can be claimed including building depreciation and interest payments. But not for residential properties. The ability to claim building depreciation was removed some time ago, and claims on interest paid is being phased out by March 2025. The effect of these changes is to make it more expensive to run the business properly, expenses that ultimately get passed on to customers - ie the tenants.
There was something in the news this week about Labour's plan to extend the depreciation rules to commercial buildings which will mean extra expenses for many businesses who will need to pass the costs on to customers, not just supermarkets but everyone else as well.
Yes, GST on rates is a government tax on top of a council tax and removing it would be good, but, like the proposals for removing GST on F&V would be chicken feed in the bigger picture. The compliance cost of running a business, any business, keep on growing and everyone pays, with those who can least afford paying the greater proportion in many cases. It would be so much better to just reduce the tax take from low income earners, recoup that from the higher income tax brackets and inflation proof the whole system.
RE: FFS leave GST alone Chippy - Oh_hunnihunni - 17-08-2023
Indeed. Especially seeing the vast majority of tax payers pay a much larger percentage of their income in tax than those very few wealthy at the top of the pile. The ones who also happen to own most of the assets. Along with a great deal of power.
Bring on the wealth tax.