The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - Printable Version +- Too Many Message Boards (https://tmmb.co.nz/forums) +-- Forum: General Topics (https://tmmb.co.nz/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=5) +--- Forum: News and Current Affairs (https://tmmb.co.nz/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=74) +--- Thread: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax (/showthread.php?tid=1399) Pages:
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RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - king1 - 05-07-2022 (04-07-2022, 11:31 AM)SueDonim Wrote:In that context, based on the several clients I have in that position, and to some extent based on dken31 statements of "a bit above average" and "This year ... pay about $127K income tax" (the latter seemingly understating the former imho)...(03-07-2022, 01:31 PM)king1 Wrote: The "rich" folks I know of are addicted to making money so I doubt very much that the prospect of a bit of extra tax alone is going to make them pack it all in and move to the 'burbs. That decision will be made by other factors, such as health, lifestyle, retirement plans etc... I was trying to make the point that not too many people making that sort of money will simply shut up shop, lay off four staff, sell up all the plant, essentially destroying all he has built up over the years - just because the government might/will increase the tax burden... This seems to be the arguement or outcome being proposed of an increased tax burden. The reality I would suggest, is the said business will be put up for sale as a going concern, the four staff will most likely continue to be employed (and pay tax), the company will presumably still make loads of money (and pay tax), and dken31 will move to a life style/sentence block with a nice seven figure payout for his efforts building up the business over the years, invest the funds, earn returns, pay tax... Or do what everyone else is doing at the moment and put prices up slightly to cover the "cost" of the extra tax burden and blame it on inflation... RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - SueDonim - 06-07-2022 (05-07-2022, 03:12 PM)king1 Wrote:(04-07-2022, 11:31 AM)SueDonim Wrote: How do you define "rich"?In that context, based on the several clients I have in that position, and to some extent based on dken31 statements of "a bit above average" and "This year ... pay about $127K income tax" (the latter seemingly understating the former imho)... From your previous post ..."That decision will be made by other factors, such as health, lifestyle, retirement plans etc...". You are right that most people won't shut up shop directly because of tax, but if they are being over-taxed and are sick to death of the hassles that come with compliance they might think "what the hell" on top of all those other reasons. When the point comes that you want/need to change what you are doing or where you are doing it, some businesses are saleable (but usually don't have as much value as people think) and relocatable but some are not. If it depends on the owner's unique skills or the precise location, then it might not be saleable at all and the owner then needs to decide what they wish to do. Which is often to just shut up shop and stop trading. If they have built enough reserve it can be a very tempting option and as said, takes a taxpayer out of the workforce. We need to reward productivity more. RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - king1 - 06-07-2022 On the subject of tax rates, the highest tax bracket rate in... Aussie is 45% US Federal tax rate is 37%, I believe they have state taxes on top of that. UK is 45% NZ at 39% looks fairly competitive doesn't it? RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - jim157 - 08-07-2022 (29-06-2022, 09:18 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: What rubbish. Waste it on what? The health service? Education?maori bribes RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - king1 - 08-07-2022 (08-07-2022, 06:41 AM)jim157 Wrote:Maori aren't the only recipients of politically motivated incentives - just the way politics works...(29-06-2022, 09:18 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: What rubbish. Waste it on what? The health service? Education?maori bribes RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - Oh_hunnihunni - 11-01-2023 Paying tax is a privilege not a burden. Do people forget in order to pay it, you have to earn it? RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - Lilith7 - 11-01-2023 If this has it right then 42% of the wealthiest pay just 12% of their total income in tax on average. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300238241/more-than-40-of-millionaires-paying-tax-rates-lower-than-the-lowest-earners-government-data-reveals RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - Oh_hunnihunni - 11-01-2023 (11-01-2023, 10:53 AM)Lilith7 Wrote: If this has it right then 42% of the wealthiest pay just 12% of their total income in tax on average. Decent accountants cost more money than us poor folks can dream of spending, lol... But if we had it, no doubt we would too. RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - Lilith7 - 11-01-2023 (11-01-2023, 12:24 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote:(11-01-2023, 10:53 AM)Lilith7 Wrote: If this has it right then 42% of the wealthiest pay just 12% of their total income in tax on average. i dunno though - not sure I'd really want to have vast amounts of dosh to the extent I was trying to hide it instead of paying fair taxes. Which is really what they're trying to do after all. RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - Foal30 - 14-01-2023 (03-07-2022, 01:15 PM)dken31 Wrote: This financial year, I'll pay about $127K income tax, but will avoid paying a further $25K by spreading income between me, my wife and kids and our trust (with very little taxed at 39%). The income I earn comes from owning and operating a business in Auckland that comes with significant risk and responsibility, and employs four well paid full-time staff. Drawing $360K to pay $127K Tax isn’t IMO onerous The bigger picture is the employees (and by extension contractors/suppliers etc) Aotearoa shouldn’t be shedding jobs because of perceptions/realities of the Tax Regime. (04-07-2022, 11:31 AM)SueDonim Wrote:(03-07-2022, 01:31 PM)king1 Wrote: The "rich" folks I know of are addicted to making money so I doubt very much that the prospect of a bit of extra tax alone is going to make them pack it all in and move to the 'burbs. That decision will be made by other factors, such as health, lifestyle, retirement plans etc... The older I get the less convinced I am of Hard Work = Big Money Certainly as we get deeper into the “Free Market” Capitalism this becomes less and less the reality I pay significantly less Tax owning my own business than I did years back on PAYE (% wise) Working for Families and the Accommodation Supplement should be factored as per your “Charities” comment. These are benefits for the Wealthy, by the Wealthy. They distort the market and embed Welfarism. Often people won’t recognize or acknowledge this simple economic fact. It’s batshit mental to me that a Wage or Salary of 80K can attract WFF subsidy/benefit It says the system has serious structural flaws RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - zqwerty - 14-01-2023 At the moment we have a Labour government and national (lower-case deliberate) followers (businessmen) will be doing their best to make Labour look bad, like by declaring that inflation is about 12% and putting up prices by the same amount throughout the economy thus actually causing said result and effectively getting more money for less product as they are always trying to achieve. Bring back price controls, running a supermarket is not rocket science. Super-profits seem to be a normal expectation in NZ. RE: The wealthy trying to avoid new tax - Lilith7 - 14-01-2023 (14-01-2023, 08:17 AM)zqwerty Wrote: At the moment we have a Labour government and national (lower-case deliberate) followers (businessmen) will be doing their best to make Labour look bad, like by declaring that inflation is about 12% and putting up prices by the same amount throughout the economy thus actually causing said result and effectively getting more money for less product as they are always trying to achieve. Agreed; price controls makes good sense. The older I get, the more I think our entire deeply unfair system needs dismantling & changed into one which is fairer to us all. No one should have to go hungry or work 4 or 5 jobs just to survive, & no one should be making obscenely massive profits, especially when that comes in some way from the suffering of others. As many of us know very well, it wasn't always like this. And what has been done once can surely be done again, but better. We can fix inequality here & we should be doing exactly that; fairer taxes might be an excellent start. This is an article from last year on what needs to happen to our health system, in response to an earlier article ( by a Dr) which advocated the 'rationing' of acute health care. Which in reality translates to 'just let poor people suffer until they die.' https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/opinion/letters/answer-more-investment-health-and-welfare-not-more-rationing-healthcare "Dr Connor’s arguments are based on one premise “The attempt to meet all the healthcare needs would overwhelm any country’s resources, including the need for other social goods, etc …..”. This is a central mantra of neoliberal philosophy, with its policies for free-market economies and the private provision of public service.1 High levels of unmet need and a creaking system should suggest a need to examine the underlying reasons for both and not rely on a managerialist technical solution. It is obvious that a major contribution to the high level of unmet need lies in pre-determinants of health such as: poverty, access to primary healthcare, inadequate housing, and poor diet. The other main reason for the creaking health and welfare services, is the thirty years of underinvestment. i.Multi-national European studies have shown that investment policies in health and other welfare services pay large positive fiscal dividends and promotes economic growth (i.e., for every dollar put into health services governments get more dollars back, often referred to as fiscal multipliers).2 Even the International Monetary Fund, a bastion of neoliberalism, which initially disagreed with the results of these studies, has since conceded that such positive fiscal multipliers do result from health and welfare investment.1 ii.Finland is an exemplar of a country that has shown what can be achieved by a policy of welfare investment.3 By comparison (Table below)4 our own level of social expenditure per capita is much lower and we can afford to do much better." |