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+--- Thread: More trouble for the Greens (/showthread.php?tid=2973)
More trouble for the Greens - Wainuiguy - 15-03-2024
Hot on the heels of Gharaman's pleading guilty to shoplifting here we have another Green MP behaving badly.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350212958/green-mp-suspended-amid-migration-exploitation-claims
I wonder if the same poster will be along to defend this case as some kind of a sting or a way to expose corruption or greed?
RE: More trouble for the Greens - king1 - 15-03-2024
we have an MP implicated in something at this stage - probably should wait for some actual proof or evidence before making conclusions...
Was it me?
RE: More trouble for the Greens - Praktica - 15-03-2024
(15-03-2024, 01:12 PM)king1 Wrote: we have an MP implicated in something at this stage - probably should wait for some actual proof or evidence before making conclusions...
Was it me?
You know how these righties work - an allegation is taken as proof; unless it's one of them, of course...then it's unpleasant bullying.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - Wainuiguy - 15-03-2024
(15-03-2024, 01:12 PM)king1 Wrote: we have an MP implicated in something at this stage - probably should wait for some actual proof or evidence before making conclusions...
Was it me?
No the poster knows who it was. [Removed:Rule 3]
Yes there are allegations and the Greens will hope they are shown to be untrue - can't have another Green MP exposed for criminal behaviour especially where it could be off the back of poor migrant workers - those they are supposedly meant to protect.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - harm_less - 15-03-2024
Good overview of the Greens' current situation from Gareth Hughes in RNZ's midday news https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018930253
Essentially they've had a lot to deal with over the past few weeks (i.e. Shaw's stepping down/Swarbrick gaining co leadership, Collin's sudden death, Golriz's resignation and prosecution, and a raft of their previous social and environmental work being raped and pillaged by the new government, etc.). Sure there's a problem with how they've dealt with the recent issues within their ranks but the level of transparency is better than what we're seeing from a PM that refuses to answer questions on his own less than stella behaviour.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - Lilith7 - 15-03-2024
Not the easiest first days for the new co leader Chloe Swarbrick. But it might be as well to wait for more details first, since not much is known at this stage.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - king1 - 15-03-2024
(15-03-2024, 02:26 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:(15-03-2024, 01:12 PM)king1 Wrote: we have an MP implicated in something at this stage - probably should wait for some actual proof or evidence before making conclusions...
Was it me?
No the poster knows who it was. [Removed:Rule 3]
Yes there are allegations and the Greens will hope they are shown to be untrue - can't have another Green MP exposed for criminal behaviour especially where it could be off the back of poor migrant workers - those they are supposedly meant to protect.
There is literally no proof or evidence other than the words of a clearly disgruntled ex employee... you could hold fire on the character assassination until there is...
RE: More trouble for the Greens - dken31 - 15-03-2024
king1, I recommend you stop being so trigger happy with the "rule-based removals" when you feel targeted, as it makes you appear rather thin-skinned.
As for the "Greens MP" facing allegations of wrong-doing, you're right that there is no proven evidence of wrong doing (no proven "fire" even if there is definitely a LOT of "smoke"), so the legal system needs to afford her the benefit of "innocent until proven guilty". However, I think it a bit much that you'd suggest that means the issue can't even be discussed on here at this stage; you can be sure that the majority left-leaning contributors on this forum definitely wouldn't afford the same courtesy to a similarly accused MP from the right.
As to proof, it seems that her husband has already been caught out lying, as a youtube video clearly refutes his claim regarding when the employee started working. I.e. the video clearly shows him as working for the company during the time that the MP's husband claims they were just "mates exchanging ideas". No evidence confirmed yet to link the MP to the offending but the allegations are highly plausible.
Also, the allegations certainly seem to fit in with a general culture amongst the Green Party of thinking that the law doesn't apply to them and to hell with the little guy if it benefits them personally, all while claiming the moral high ground and pretending to stand up for the little guy. Think Ghahraman and her shoplifting, Menendez March abusing his position to get himself & his partner through COVID quarantine, Shaw lying about his qualifications, Davis spouting racism/misandry (white cis men) etc. I know that the political world generally seems to attract the self-obsessed and morally questionable, however the Green Party seems to just take all that to the next level.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - king1 - 15-03-2024
(15-03-2024, 03:26 PM)dken31 Wrote: king1, I recommend you stop being so trigger happy with the "rule-based removals" when you feel targeted, as it makes you appear rather thin-skinned.
This forum has rules and they are enforced when deemed necessary by moderators. The Rules are part of the Registration Agreement when joining this forum. We don't want or intend to stifle discussion, merely to keep it civil and focused on the discussion, not other members...
Folks can harass and insult other members without impunity elsewhere...
and Rule 9E is a rule as well...
RE: More trouble for the Greens - harm_less - 15-03-2024
(15-03-2024, 02:45 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: Not the easiest first days for the new co leader Chloe Swarbrick. But it might be as well to wait for more details first, since not much is known at this stage.It was suggested on RNZ earlier that Chloe may have been instrumental in bringing this issue out into the open since her recent appointment. If so it bodes well for her strength of leadership.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - Oh_hunnihunni - 15-03-2024
I remember a certain farming wife/political figure being accused of animal abuse not that long ago, and not being stood down...
I wonder which party that was?
(15-03-2024, 03:26 PM)dken31 Wrote: king1, I recommend you stop being so trigger happy with the "rule-based removals" when you feel targeted, as it makes you appear rather thin-skinned.
As for the "Greens MP" facing allegations of wrong-doing, you're right that there is no proven evidence of wrong doing (no proven "fire" even if there is definitely a LOT of "smoke"), so the legal system needs to afford her the benefit of "innocent until proven guilty". However, I think it a bit much that you'd suggest that means the issue can't even be discussed on here at this stage; you can be sure that the majority left-leaning contributors on this forum definitely wouldn't afford the same courtesy to a similarly accused MP from the right.
As to proof, it seems that her husband has already been caught out lying, as a youtube video clearly refutes his claim regarding when the employee started working. I.e. the video clearly shows him as working for the company during the time that the MP's husband claims they were just "mates exchanging ideas". No evidence confirmed yet to link the MP to the offending but the allegations are highly plausible.
Also, the allegations certainly seem to fit in with a general culture amongst the Green Party of thinking that the law doesn't apply to them and to hell with the little guy if it benefits them personally, all while claiming the moral high ground and pretending to stand up for the little guy. Think Ghahraman and her shoplifting, Menendez March abusing his position to get himself & his partner through COVID quarantine, Shaw lying about his qualifications, Davis spouting racism/misandry (white cis men) etc. I know that the political world generally seems to attract the self-obsessed and morally questionable, however the Green Party seems to just take all that to the next level.
I think the Greens responded appropriately in both these cases, considering there were multiple interests involved here, including their own members right to privacy and a fair hearing.
But of course, any excuse to put the boot in, just as was applied to all those other MPs who have behaved badly in the past - that is the price of standing for a political position.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - Wainuiguy - 16-03-2024
‘I’ve thought I am the dumbest person’ - Former employees speak in Greens case https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350214591/darleen-tana-case-former-employees-speak-out
Not a one off situation by the look of it. More cases coming out.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - zqwerty - 16-03-2024
Since most of the country is full of money grubbers after every possible dollar it's not surprising that the Greens Party has such people as well.
Luxon would be an ultimate example of this behaviour.
Going absolute max in all directions every day grubbing money seems a strange way to live ones life and probably will result in an early grave, I've known a number of people with this behaviour and they have died young, one was Noel Leeming and he died young. Worked for him for less than a day before I walked out, couldn't stand his hyper rudeness and get ahead at all costs behaviour. He got plenty of money but couldn't take it with him so what was the point?
Just filling in time avoiding reality by staying busy, making the peoples lives around him miserable and dying young, what a great example of getting it all wrong.
I should add, this was the time when Noel was working out of a small cottage in a Barrington Street carpark next to the Mall, back in the 1970's. Later I would see him in Cokers Hotel and he would always be arch and sarcastic with me, but then a bit later he was dead. By that time he had a large ocean going private yacht in Lyttelton Harbour, much good it did him. He reminded me of a London spive.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - Oh_hunnihunni - 16-03-2024
It is too easy to judge a criminal case on the basis of media reports, the full story never gets told.
(15-03-2024, 02:26 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote:(15-03-2024, 01:12 PM)king1 Wrote: we have an MP implicated in something at this stage - probably should wait for some actual proof or evidence before making conclusions...
Was it me?
No the poster knows who it was. [Removed:Rule 3]
Yes there are allegations and the Greens will hope they are shown to be untrue - can't have another Green MP exposed for criminal behaviour especially where it could be off the back of poor migrant workers - those they are supposedly meant to protect.
You know who is actually supposed to protect migrant workers?
The Immigration Department and MPI not some lowly Green MP. And a fat lot of good either of them do in the hundreds of cases out there. Heavens there aren't even enough staff to check all the successful applications by employers let alone visa holders. I don't know what is happening where you live, but for example - we watch building sites all around us operate and the ones with migrant labour work all hours, under all conditions, and go up really fast. Eyebrows get raised and suspicions aroused, but if the system is being exploited who knows...
The awful reality is there are more slaves now than there have ever been in human history, and New Zealand has its share. The myth of equal opportunity, fairness, and safety in this nation is just that - a myth. And MPs are among those responsible, not just Green ones. All of them.
When there is money to be made fast, people always get hurt. There is no such thing as a free lunch, ask Seymour...
RE: More trouble for the Greens - Lilith7 - 16-03-2024
(16-03-2024, 08:34 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It is too easy to judge a criminal case on the basis of media reports, the full story never gets told.
(15-03-2024, 02:26 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: No the poster knows who it was. [Removed:Rule 3]
Yes there are allegations and the Greens will hope they are shown to be untrue - can't have another Green MP exposed for criminal behaviour especially where it could be off the back of poor migrant workers - those they are supposedly meant to protect.
You know who is actually supposed to protect migrant workers?
The Immigration Department and MPI not some lowly Green MP. And a fat lot of good either of them do in the hundreds of cases out there. Heavens there aren't even enough staff to check all the successful applications by employers let alone visa holders. I don't know what is happening where you live, but for example - we watch building sites all around us operate and the ones with migrant labour work all hours, under all conditions, and go up really fast. Eyebrows get raised and suspicions aroused, but if the system is being exploited who knows...
The awful reality is there are more slaves now than there have ever been in human history, and New Zealand has its share. The myth of equal opportunity, fairness, and safety in this nation is just that - a myth. And MPs are among those responsible, not just Green ones. All of them.
When there is money to be made fast, people always get hurt. There is no such thing as a free lunch, ask Seymour...
I sometimes think that greed is the most unattractive - & damaging - aspect of human nature. Though I may be somewhat biased due to presently re reading The grapes of wrath, John Steinbeck, which deals with precisely that & all the horrific consequences of it.
That particular book & one or two others, should imo be required reading for anyone who is, or wanting to be, a politician.
To be read at least yearly - & perhaps explained to them,just to be sure they get it.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - king1 - 16-03-2024
(16-03-2024, 08:34 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It is too easy to judge a criminal case on the basis of media reports, the full story never gets told.
(15-03-2024, 02:26 PM)Wainuiguy Wrote: No the poster knows who it was. [Removed:Rule 3]
Yes there are allegations and the Greens will hope they are shown to be untrue - can't have another Green MP exposed for criminal behaviour especially where it could be off the back of poor migrant workers - those they are supposedly meant to protect.
The awful reality is there are more slaves now than there have ever been in human history, and New Zealand has its share. The myth of equal opportunity, fairness, and safety in this nation is just that - a myth. And MPs are among those responsible, not just Green ones. All of them.
My Dad used to say we're all just highly paid slaves...
RE: More trouble for the Greens - Lilith7 - 16-03-2024
(16-03-2024, 10:22 AM)king1 Wrote:(16-03-2024, 08:34 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It is too easy to judge a criminal case on the basis of media reports, the full story never gets told.
The awful reality is there are more slaves now than there have ever been in human history, and New Zealand has its share. The myth of equal opportunity, fairness, and safety in this nation is just that - a myth. And MPs are among those responsible, not just Green ones. All of them.
My Dad used to say we're all just highly paid slaves...
I think he may have had a point, too.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - harm_less - 16-03-2024
A friend who was working in offshore oil production construction in a design and management capacity about 30 years back recounted a experience of his during a project he was involved in in SE Asia. A module was identified as being behind schedule so for the next week or so ~18 local workers spent very long hours welding, wiring, fitting and applying surface treatments in an area the size of a Kiwi lounge, with inches of water on the floor and fresh air vented in through temporary plastic ducting. End result was that the module was finished on time with no lost time accidents.
Part of the immigrant labour issues we have here may well be that those people are used to far inferior conditions and remuneration in their past work experience so are hesitant to make a fuss and risk losing their work visa status. Often I imagine it's not until co-workers or relatives highlight the inadequacies that the disadvantaged individuals start digging their toes in with their fellow workers then following the lead made.
I'm not justifying abuse of imported workers but often the circumstances aren't as clear cut as clickbait style media reports would lead you to believe.
RE: More trouble for the Greens - Oh_hunnihunni - 16-03-2024
I have been in this old council pensioner flat for more than a decade now, and in that time there have been two lots of contractors hired to paint all the exterior wood work. The first one took a group of Muslim workers three weeks to complete, it was interesting chatting with them. They were highly educated men, living in a shared flat, that was such they envied our tiny spaces. They did the job including the high points with no extra equipment, the paint was poor quality, and they worked long hours with short breaks.
Six years later another contractor came in, with one husband and wife team, Asians who couldn't speak English and who did their best to complete tasks as the contractor specified. But he didn't know about Osh requirements, and was pulled off until scaffolding, and safety rails, along with revised paint choices and other employer changes were put in place. The job took four months, and now two years in, the same deteriorating surfaces are showing up as happened the first time.
That is what happens when lowest price contracts win out over quality. And the lowest price for a job pivots on exploiting the labour available.
It is a widespread attitude in business that really needs to change. People matter as much as money. But, let's not hold our breath for that change...
RE: More trouble for the Greens - king1 - 16-03-2024
(16-03-2024, 01:24 PM)harm_less Wrote: Part of the immigrant labour issues we have here may well be that those people are used to far inferior conditions and remuneration in their past work experience so are hesitant to make a fuss and risk losing their work visa status. Often I imagine it's not until co-workers or relatives highlight the inadequacies that the disadvantaged individuals start digging their toes in with their fellow workers then following the lead made.
and the work visa is tied to a single employer iirc, so it does create a rather large power imbalance between employer and employee...
someone mentioned slavery?