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+--- Thread: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy (/showthread.php?tid=3323)
Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Lilith7 - 15-08-2024
The usual beneficiary bashing from this govt, the latest move to control what poor people on benefits can buy - the govt attitude appears to be that 'these people cannot be permitted a minute's enjoyment & must not be allowed to spend on things considered unwise by govt.'
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/524919/watch-government-further-increases-sanctions-for-beneficiaries
But it is an interesting idea...& if used for anothert group, could genuinely make some helpful difference.
Just not to beneficiaries.
Suppose we were to apply this idea to say, politicians.
Suppose we the voters were able to control their spending...no more fancy hotels when travelling, a more modest one will do, or even a hostel ( though that could perhaps be unfair. To other guests) & of course,unless they're entertaining a guest as part of their duties, no need for fancy restaurants either.
And for those not living in Welly, no doubt a modest Kainga Ora flat can be kept for their use while in parliament. And too, we could trim or do away with, those lifelong perks they get on retirement.
There must be all sorts of things politicians get that we could cut back on...
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Oh_hunnihunni - 15-08-2024
Staffers, for starters.
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Lilith7 - 15-08-2024
(15-08-2024, 05:47 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: Staffers, for starters.
Why not,we'd have to start somewhere...
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - C_T_Russell - 17-08-2024
How dare they block the dole bludgers from buying cigarettes and alcohol while their kids go hungry.
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Lilith7 - 17-08-2024
(17-08-2024, 11:21 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote: How dare they block the dole bludgers from buying cigarettes and alcohol while their kids go hungry.
So then would you prefer those out of work to be abandoned, with no help whatsoever?
What about their children, if they have them? What about their homes, how do you think they'll be able to pay their rent or mortgage without help?
Assuming everyone on an unemployment benefit is really a 'dole bludger' is nonsense, but it does appear to be exactly what this govt wants everyone to think.
If you've never lost your job then you can count yourself extremely fortunate.
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Praktica - 17-08-2024
(17-08-2024, 11:21 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote: How dare they block the dole bludgers from buying cigarettes and alcohol while their kids go hungry.
Got evidence of that happening? Or is this just another rightwing lie...
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Oh_hunnihunni - 17-08-2024
It is so easy isn't it? To blame the ciggies, the beer, the avocado on toasts or the cafe coffees... While enjoying our own behind the screen. Blame bludging. Blame the boomers. Blame the millennials. Blame cat ladies. Blame anyone else except the one in the mirror.
Easy. And so lazy...
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Praktica - 17-08-2024
(17-08-2024, 12:24 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It is so easy isn't it? To blame the ciggies, the beer, the avocado on toasts or the cafe coffees... While enjoying our own behind the screen. Blame bludging. Blame the boomers. Blame the millennials. Blame cat ladies. Blame anyone else except the one in the mirror.
Easy. And so lazy...
Years ago, I worked for a business owned by people heavily involved in the Transcendental Meditation movement. One thing they were very much against was negativity...
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - C_T_Russell - 17-08-2024
(17-08-2024, 11:38 AM)Lilith7 Wrote:If you look closely at the policy it's only affecting those on a worksheets benefit AKA dole, and will only affect those who are not actively looking for work.(17-08-2024, 11:21 AM)C_T_Russell Wrote: How dare they block the dole bludgers from buying cigarettes and alcohol while their kids go hungry.
So then would you prefer those out of work to be abandoned, with no help whatsoever?
What about their children, if they have them? What about their homes, how do you think they'll be able to pay their rent or mortgage without help?
Assuming everyone on an unemployment benefit is really a 'dole bludger' is nonsense, but it does appear to be exactly what this govt wants everyone to think.
If you've never lost your job then you can count yourself extremely fortunate.
I highly doubt many on the dole would be paying a mortgage and if so they are likely actively looking for work and won't be affected will they?
And giving welfare funds instead of physical cash to those who actively sit on their butt's which is what this policy is actually targeting will ensure their money goes to food and rent instead of being blown on things such as alcohol.
They say it didn't work when Australia tried it, bit we should be able to learn from their mistakes and improve on it.
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Oh_hunnihunni - 17-08-2024
It is part of policy relating to beneficiaries. Check out the traffic lights system, this is one of the sanctions that can be applied to any beneficiary. Including the permanently disabled, who could be reclassified as being able to transition to work seeking status. If case managers decide. Case managers are not trained in assessing medical conditions, but that won't stop them trying...
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=885480000061168&set=pcb.885480140061154
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - harm_less - 17-08-2024
Putting 50% of their benefit where it can only be spent on certain things and probably at certain stores sounds like a golden handshake for those retailers who suck up to the government sufficiently to gain that privilege.
What happens to those whose rent exceeds 50% of their benefit, or whose utilities costs fall into that same situation. Why should those that aim to improve their spending power by purchasing secondhand through the likes of Trade Me, FB, Neighbourly, etc be targeted?
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Lilith7 - 17-08-2024
(17-08-2024, 02:22 PM)harm_less Wrote: Putting 50% of their benefit where it can only be spent on certain things and probably at certain stores sounds like a golden handshake for those retailers who suck up to the government sufficiently to gain that privilege.
What happens to those whose rent exceeds 50% of their benefit, or whose utilities costs fall into that same situation. Why should those that aim to improve their spending power by purchasing secondhand through the likes of Trade Me, FB, Neighbourly, etc be targeted?
I really don't think this lot are bothered; they seem only interested in the wellfare of the already wealthy & the will be wealthy.
God to a hungry child
I didn’t make this world for you
You didn’t buy any stocks in my
railroad
You didn’t invest in my
Corporation
Where are your shares in Standard
Oil?
I made the world for the rich
And the will-be-rich
And the have-always-been-rich
Not for you
Hungry child.
Langston Hughes
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Oh_hunnihunni - 18-08-2024
(17-08-2024, 02:22 PM)harm_less Wrote: Putting 50% of their benefit where it can only be spent on certain things and probably at certain stores sounds like a golden handshake for those retailers who suck up to the government sufficiently to gain that privilege.
What happens to those whose rent exceeds 50% of their benefit, or whose utilities costs fall into that same situation. Why should those that aim to improve their spending power by purchasing secondhand through the likes of Trade Me, FB, Neighbourly, etc be targeted?
And it is so empowering as an adult human being to be told by a checkout operator at your supermarket that an item in your shop is 'not allowed'...
I understand the need to make sure the help is not abused, but this is not the way to do it.
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Lilith7 - 18-08-2024
(18-08-2024, 10:42 AM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote:(17-08-2024, 02:22 PM)harm_less Wrote: Putting 50% of their benefit where it can only be spent on certain things and probably at certain stores sounds like a golden handshake for those retailers who suck up to the government sufficiently to gain that privilege.
What happens to those whose rent exceeds 50% of their benefit, or whose utilities costs fall into that same situation. Why should those that aim to improve their spending power by purchasing secondhand through the likes of Trade Me, FB, Neighbourly, etc be targeted?
And it is so empowering as an adult human being to be told by a checkout operator at your supermarket that an item in your shop is 'not allowed'...
I understand the need to make sure the help is not abused, but this is not the way to do it.
It almost certainly isn't about ensuring no one abuses the system. It is far more likely to be about power,control & encouraging some to ensure that others - those in a particular group - feel inferior, embarrassed & if possible, ashamed & powerless.
They may have forgotten that, eventually there WILL be another election..
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Lilith7 - 18-08-2024
Power & control.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2408/S00026/on-the-crackdown-on-the-beneficiary-poor.htm?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2aTa9739IWJ4QYhJoxT1p7Nl-4xRkUQ2kGvrwwmeU0uiNTQWqPCZTe8Os_aem_Jw5o-f743ubSJnb3hHSwTw
Interesting that Luxon hadn't the least idea what those on benefits were struggling to survive on. And no clue as to how those whose benefits are cut, or halved will be able to survive. Or that the cost of imprisoning them (once they have no alternative but to committ crimes in order to survive) will be far greater than that of their full benefit payment.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/525178/warning-of-higher-social-cost-as-oranga-tamariki-cuts-funds-for-counselling-service?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0YbYVDZsreKx_ikFyhfYPz5PNES8ODCwbrOsrqXIkfskQXcgAi8yaAN1I_aem_zhysM-5IgMqop-to8sbp0w
This govt certasinly has a massive problem with poor people & seems eager to make their lives as miserable as possible.
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Lilith7 - 18-08-2024
What happened last time we had a crackdown on beneficiaries.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/15-08-2024/what-happened-last-time-we-had-a-beneficiary-crackdown?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2b4ucZlNLLlEiAF8hLKl8fogM6CNvZKZ3wKTOu3u5DgMe_femQwd2MAoA_aem_JJk1SUCNGAOHPn9WipjvBg
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Oh_hunnihunni - 18-08-2024
(17-08-2024, 01:21 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It is part of policy relating to beneficiaries. Check out the traffic lights system, this is one of the sanctions that can be applied to any beneficiary. Including the permanently disabled, who could be reclassified as being able to transition to work seeking status. If case managers decide. Case managers are not trained in assessing medical conditions, but that won't stop them trying...
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=885480000061168&set=pcb.885480140061154
And here is another case, where case managers think they know more than a client's medical team.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/525452/sickness-beneficiaries-worried-about-potential-for-sanctions
RE: Controlling what beneficiaries can buy - Lilith7 - 19-08-2024
(18-08-2024, 06:29 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote:(17-08-2024, 01:21 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It is part of policy relating to beneficiaries. Check out the traffic lights system, this is one of the sanctions that can be applied to any beneficiary. Including the permanently disabled, who could be reclassified as being able to transition to work seeking status. If case managers decide. Case managers are not trained in assessing medical conditions, but that won't stop them trying...
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=885480000061168&set=pcb.885480140061154
And here is another case, where case managers think they know more than a client's medical team.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/525452/sickness-beneficiaries-worried-about-potential-for-sanctions
I think those case managers need better skills when dealing with people who are ill, & the system needs to change because if it doesn't then there's a possibility that people may die as a result, whether from their illness or from suicide.
Either this govt doesn't comprehend the damage which may result from their actions or they know all too well & just do not care.