+- Too Many Message Boards (https://tmmb.co.nz/forums)
+-- Forum: PC World Forums (https://tmmb.co.nz/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=86)
+--- Forum: PressF1 (https://tmmb.co.nz/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=87)
+--- Thread: New build occasional Bluescreens (/showthread.php?tid=3822)
Pages:
1
2
New build occasional Bluescreens - Dugimodo - 01-03-2025
So it's been a couple years since I was on this forum, hope we are all still well.
I built myself a new gaming PC this month and I'm having some issues hoping for suggestions.
Ryzen 7700x (2nd hand from trademe, the rest is new)
G.Skill Ripjaws M5 Neo DDR5 6000 32GB (16GB x 2)
Asus B650M-E WiFi
Lexar 4GB NM790 M.2
Zotac RX4070Ti (from the old machine)
I'm getting very occasional bluescreens with a "your pc has encountered an error and needs to restart" message - maybe once a day at most. Very difficult to diagnose due to how stable it is most of the time. There was a weird graphics issue during setup that made me roll back and reset windows and graphics drivers etc, wondering if I killed something (turns out the monitor went fauly right when I reset the PC and sent me down a rabbit hole)
What I've tried:
Disabled AMD Expo - RAM clocks down to 4800 - seems to be a lot better, took 3 days before it crashed again right as I was shutting down - thought I'd fixed it.
Tried setting the FC clock to 1800 (from an online thread suggestion) - seemed better but crashed again the next day.
Updated BIOS, Chipset drivers, Sound drivers, still have Wifi and Bluetooth to go (trying to only do one thing at a time between crashes)
Most recently as in last night I disabled the onboard GPU and uninstalled the radeon software and ran DDU. Waiting to see if that's helped.
Also the RAM is not on the QVL list and is 1.25V while all the QVL stuff seems to be 1.35V or 1.4V - shouldn't matter right?
Any suggestions welcome. This is turning out to be the slowest problem solving ever, taking days between crashes.
Sorry for the long post.
Edit: sorry forgot to mention, can't see what the bluescreen code is as it goes away too fast and event viewer only has unexpected restart faults which is not helpful.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Bryan - 01-03-2025
I have no answers but great to hear from you again.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - zqwerty - 01-03-2025
The auto restart is what is causing you to not be able to read the error message, I fairly sure you can turn off the auto restart in the bios, but forgotten where, sorry.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - king1 - 01-03-2025
for those issues i use
https://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed
will parse the crash dumps and try to determine the cause - useful info to analyse the problem
if no crash dumps are found then that might suggest it is a hardware fault and not software
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Dugimodo - 01-03-2025
(01-03-2025, 06:39 PM)king1 Wrote: for those issues i use
https://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed
will parse the crash dumps and try to determine the cause - useful info to analyse the problem
if no crash dumps are found then that might suggest it is a hardware fault and not software
Thanks, I downloaded it and ran it. Seems to point to either a driver or RAM issue. RAM is my biggest suspicion at the moment due to how much less frequently the crashes happen with Expo disabled.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - nzoomed - 06-03-2025
I had the exact same issue with a brand new build late last year which i started a thread about here, had a gigabyte board with a B550M chipset, swapped out the board and still failed, 2 brand new boards BSOD, ran prime95, memtest etc could not get it to fail on me, but would just randomly BSOD on average about once per week while running.
Ended up ditching the board with the ASUS equivalent and worked a treat with zero issues.
Never encountered 2 faulty boards in a row before but I will never touch gigabyte ever again after this.
Ive heard a few stories where people are finding similar issues with some Ryzen boards however, will be interested to see what you find the issue is.
(01-03-2025, 03:21 PM)zqwerty Wrote: The auto restart is what is causing you to not be able to read the error message, I fairly sure you can turn off the auto restart in the bios, but forgotten where, sorry.
That is usually found under system properties in windows, quite an annoying feature to be enabled as most users will just report its rebooted, unaware that a BSOD has happened.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Wainuitech - 06-03-2025
(01-03-2025, 06:49 PM)Dugimodo Wrote:(01-03-2025, 06:39 PM)king1 Wrote: for those issues i use
https://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed
will parse the crash dumps and try to determine the cause - useful info to analyse the problem
if no crash dumps are found then that might suggest it is a hardware fault and not software
Thanks, I downloaded it and ran it. Seems to point to either a driver or RAM issue. RAM is my biggest suspicion at the moment due to how much less frequently the crashes happen with Expo disabled.
Run memtest through the Computer. When it runs, if it's a faulty RAM stick it often will turn red quickly, otherwise wise leave it running (usually can take several hours or even over night).
MemTest86 - Official Site of the x86 and ARM Memory Testing Tool
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - king1 - 06-03-2025
(06-03-2025, 12:20 PM)Wainuitech Wrote:(01-03-2025, 06:49 PM)Dugimodo Wrote: Thanks, I downloaded it and ran it. Seems to point to either a driver or RAM issue. RAM is my biggest suspicion at the moment due to how much less frequently the crashes happen with Expo disabled.
Run memtest through the Computer. When it runs, if it's a faulty RAM stick it often will turn red quickly, otherwise wise leave it running (usually can take several hours or even over night).
MemTest86 - Official Site of the x86 and ARM Memory Testing Tool
good idea
just to add, test them one stick at a time, remove the others, often times you find a bad stick when it won't boot up at all
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Dugimodo - 07-03-2025
I have run the inbuilt windows memtest without error a few times but I'll give memtest a try too.
Since I disabled the onboard graphics and removed the drivers the night before starting this thread it hasn't crashed at all, 7 days now. Considering re enabling Expo and seeing if it stays stable at 6000 Mt/s instead of 4800 Mt/s but thinking I'll give it another day or two first. Currently running at default RAM speed and no onboard GPU. Since the onboard GPU uses system RAM it could still be the memory at fault I guess.
It's never crashed while gaming or doing anything stressful, all the crashes have been doing mundane things like just opening another browser tab or checking my email etc.
The only crash that happened with the slower memory speed was actually right as I clicked the shutdown button.
It's reminding me of my first ryzen build 6 years ago, It would not stay stable at the XMP setting and had to be manually dialled down to the maximum officially supported speed of the 2700X to work.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Dugimodo - 08-03-2025
well I ran memtest for a couple of hours with Expo enabled and no errors, then left expo running and used the PC like that. 12 hours of run time later it bluescreened again.
I'm just going to give up and run the memory at 4800 and see if it stays stable. About the only other thing left to try is to disable sleep mode and fast boot because it did go to sleep once during that 12 hours and I've never had a PC that completely played nice with sleep mode.
I don't have the money to buy different RAM and I don't think it's clear if anything is actually faulty or it's just a minor compatibility issue.
It's really frustrating trying to fix something that stays stable for days at a time. Also contemplating reinstalling windows because of the issues I had the first time.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - driftwood - 08-03-2025
I feel your pain and frustration Dugi.
Hope you get it sorted.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - king1 - 08-03-2025
(08-03-2025, 04:48 PM)Dugimodo Wrote: It's really frustrating trying to fix something that stays stable for days at a time. Also contemplating reinstalling windows because of the issues I had the first time.
nothing wrong with installing windows on a spare hard drive to see if you can reproduce the fault, I do that on the odd occasion...
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - nzoomed - 09-03-2025
(01-03-2025, 03:21 PM)zqwerty Wrote: The auto restart is what is causing you to not be able to read the error message, I fairly sure you can turn off the auto restart in the bios, but forgotten where, sorry.
(08-03-2025, 04:48 PM)Dugimodo Wrote: well I ran memtest for a couple of hours with Expo enabled and no errors, then left expo running and used the PC like that. 12 hours of run time later it bluescreened again.
I'm just going to give up and run the memory at 4800 and see if it stays stable. About the only other thing left to try is to disable sleep mode and fast boot because it did go to sleep once during that 12 hours and I've never had a PC that completely played nice with sleep mode.
I don't have the money to buy different RAM and I don't think it's clear if anything is actually faulty or it's just a minor compatibility issue.
It's really frustrating trying to fix something that stays stable for days at a time. Also contemplating reinstalling windows because of the issues I had the first time.
I share your frustration too, sometimes it can be the least likely thing.
I suggest you ask around and see if you have any friends who have some spare RAM to borrow.
Do you have a used computer recycler in your area? you might be able to get some cheap memory to test with, even one stick would work.
Im interested to find out whats at fault, given that ive experienced a very similar issue with a brand new ryzen motherboard.
Any chance you can provide us the bluescreen error? You should be able to get it from the windows event viewer, or else download bluescreenview.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Dugimodo - 12-03-2025
Here's some of the data from bluescreenview. The longer gaps between crashes are from when I clock the memory down to 4800. At this point I'm just leaving the memory at 4800 and waiting to see if it crashes again. 8/03 was the last time I tried enabling AMD expo.
8/03/2025 5:37:17 pm PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA 0x00000050 ntoskrnl.exe
1/03/2025 12:01:53 am SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED ntoskrnl.exe
26/02/2025 2:56:48 pm PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA NTFS.SYS
25/02/2025 9:48:02 am PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA
24/02/2025 5:30:21 pm SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED ntoskrnl.exe
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - king1 - 12-03-2025
as an alternative to trying new RAM, why not remove one of the sticks for a while and run it on 16GB RAM - might be interesting to see what happens. swap them over and test the other one if it still does the same.
and what kind of PSU are you using, was it new or repurposed - bad PSUs can cause random crashes
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - nzoomed - 13-03-2025
(12-03-2025, 04:47 PM)Dugimodo Wrote: Here's some of the data from bluescreenview. The longer gaps between crashes are from when I clock the memory down to 4800. At this point I'm just leaving the memory at 4800 and waiting to see if it crashes again. 8/03 was the last time I tried enabling AMD expo.
8/03/2025 5:37:17 pm PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA 0x00000050 ntoskrnl.exe
1/03/2025 12:01:53 am SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED ntoskrnl.exe
26/02/2025 2:56:48 pm PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA NTFS.SYS
25/02/2025 9:48:02 am PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA
24/02/2025 5:30:21 pm SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED ntoskrnl.exe
I would definitely try some different RAM if you can find some, but for now try a single stick as king1 suggested.
I would also try running the system without the graphics card installed, I see your CPU has built in graphics, so you should be able to test the system without the graphics card installed.
Here is a good guide to go through regarding page faults.
There is a good chance its hardware related, it's just a process of elimination.
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/fix-page-fault-error-windows-10
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Agent_24 - 21-03-2025
You didn't mention your PSU at all, yet the PSU is the most important part of the system. Without stable and clean power, nothing else can work properly. What power supply are you using, and is it new or used? It could definitely be a cause of the problem, if it's old with worn out capacitors, or if it's just plain cheap and nasty.
Otherwise...
Almost every time I've seen those PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA codes it's memory issues - or CPU issues since the MC is in the CPU now. Only once or twice it was a software or other hardware issue.
You say the CPU was second hand... maybe this is why they sold it...
It's telling if you can't run the RAM at full speed or the crashes get worse
Get RAM that's on the QVL, run it at its rated speed, and then hit it with Prime95.
If you still have system instability or errors in P95 then you very likely have a CPU or motherboard problem, especially if you already have the latest BIOS.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Dugimodo - 22-03-2025
The PSU is a corsair rm850e purchased in may 2023 and was rock solid in the previous build using the same GPU and a 5800x3d so while it's possible I don't think that's the issue.
I did have the same thought regarding the CPU but there's no way to know without spare parts to swap around.
The thing with testing using prime 95 is that it doesn't crash any more than normal use, which is to say about once a day (not that I've run P95 that long but it's never crashed while it was running).
I enabled Expo last monday and left memtest running all day while I was at work, no errors. But then I turned it back off again because with it off I haven't had a bluescreen since the 8/3 and at this point I'm just resigned to live with it like that.
I haven't been able to definitively prove whether it's a faulty component, a driver issue, or just a compatibility issue. Officially the 7700X only supports up to 5200Mhz but all the reviews I watched said 6000Mhz is the sweet spot which is why I went for that. Maybe I just picked the wrong RAM, yeah getting RAM on the QVL list would have been better but too late now and also it's not always been easy to find QVL RAM in NZ (but yes it for this board it is available and I should have).
You think I'd learn, My last 3 RAM purchases have been a bit wrong and caused me issues. First a ryzen 2700x where I got RAM advertised as for intel and had to down clock it for stability, then a 5600x on the same board (which fixed the original RAM issues btw) where I got new RAM and made the same mistake again - but it didn't matter because it worked. Now this time where I made sure it supported expo and was advertised as for AMD but didn't check the QVL list.
I think all my years with intel core CPUs where I just bought any old RAM based on speed and capacity and it just worked made me less cautious than I should be.
The PC is probably going to stay as is now until next year, at which point I may look at upgrading the CPU
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Dugimodo - 28-03-2025
Well, after 20 days stable it crashed on me while shutting down with a memory management stop code.
I've taken out one of the RAM sticks and re enabled expo in the hopes that I won't have to wait 20 days for a crash (was daily with expo enabled if you recall).
What is really winding me up right now is the thought that if it works ok in single channel mode on both chips I still won't know if it's the RAM or the CPU but here's hoping one works and one doesn't.
Bit of a bitch to remove the other ram stick as it's under the air cooler.
Also just to note while one of the tools suggests overheating RAM hardware monitor has never shown it over 40c on either stick.
RE: New build occasional Bluescreens - Wainuitech - 28-03-2025
Actually had that code myself on a customer's PC the other day, ran all sorts of tests everything passed, but it continued to crash. With all signs giving signs of a corrupted operating system went to reinstall. BINGO-- Windows wouldn't install, came up with a message never seen before - We can't install Windows, please select another drive, current location drive is about to fail. ( was a SSD)
Changed drives, with a new one- all good.