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+--- Thread: disinformation (/showthread.php?tid=727)
disinformation - Yogi - 20-11-2021
At what point should an MP get prosecuted for deliberately giving disinformation?
Lying simply to discredit a good organization is despicable.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/127032009/nash-says-groundswell-stands-for-racist-antivax-sentiment
RE: disinformation - king1 - 20-11-2021
looks to me like he just stated what he read on the website, and from the link you posted there were issues with racism in that organisation, so I can't really agree he is "deliberately giving disinformation", and no doubt what he read has been removed by now...
From what I read of their position statement they just seem to be a bunch of farmers unhappy with the current governments direction. It wouldn't be the first time someone tried to discredit someone else, both directions in this case...
RE: disinformation - Yogi - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 01:20 PM)king1 Wrote: looks to me like he just stated what he read on the website, and from the link you posted there were issues with racism in that organisation, so I can't really agree he is "deliberately giving disinformation", and no doubt what he read has been removed by now...This is the guy representing rural development saying discusting things like he did about his constituents.
From what I read of their position statement they just seem to be a bunch of farmers unhappy with the current governments direction. It wouldn't be the first time someone tried to discredit someone else, both directions in this case...
The irony is one of the things groundswell is protesting about is the government cutting of Philippine workers. How does that make the movement racist? Also they have been pro vax from day one so how does that make them anti vax.
You claim that because some anti vaxers have posted on their site it makes them anti vax. Anti vaxers have placed posts on all sorts of media including probably Labour MPS so does that make that MP an anti vaxer if that happens?
RE: disinformation - harm_less - 20-11-2021
Groundswell's real problem is that any protest held lately decends into a rent-a-mob mentality and I suspect GS's website and/or Facebook reflected the same before a purge prompted by the recent fuss with Nash.
From their previous protest:
![[Image: Twitter-supplied-farm-protest-signs-1120.jpg]](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2021/07/groundswell-organisers-says-racist-misogynistic-signs-at-farming-protest-disappointing/_jcr_content/par/video/image.dynimg.768.q75.jpg/v1626657848037/Twitter-supplied-farm-protest-signs-1120.jpg)
And those are quite tame compared to some I remember seeing.
RE: disinformation - king1 - 20-11-2021
that's not a good look.
RE: disinformation - Orthelia - 20-11-2021
Most farmers are not anti-vaxers but they are against what has being enforced on them by
all the unworkable implementations the water issue is just one of them.
This is why GS was incubated from
RE: disinformation - Yogi - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 01:49 PM)harm_less Wrote: Groundswell's real problem is that any protest held lately decends into a rent-a-mob mentality and I suspect GS's website and/or Facebook reflected the same before a purge prompted by the recent fuss with Nash.So as an administrator of this site you are saying everyone who posts something dumb or anti government that they represent you and your forum?
From their previous protest:
And those are quite tame compared to some I remember seeing.
RE: disinformation - king1 - 20-11-2021
the top left photo could have been worded better, that just screams racism.
Personally I would like to see the use of english translations where Maori names are used, so I at least know what it says
RE: disinformation - Lilith7 - 20-11-2021
While Groundswell may have some valid points, to be protesting when this country is struggling to cope with a pandemic was never going to be a good look.
And if the racist comments aren't swiftly stamped out, together with the childish claims of a 'communist PM' then that well may damage any credibility they might have.
RE: disinformation - king1 - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 02:01 PM)Yogi Wrote:(20-11-2021, 01:49 PM)harm_less Wrote: Groundswell's real problem is that any protest held lately decends into a rent-a-mob mentality and I suspect GS's website and/or Facebook reflected the same before a purge prompted by the recent fuss with Nash.So as an administrator of this site you are saying everyone who posts something dumb or anti government that they represent you and your forum?
From their previous protest:
And those are quite tame compared to some I remember seeing.
I wouldn't go that far, but I would say that it creates an association between that message and the organisation/platform in which it is posted. Enough of those associations will tend to frame the organisation/platform as being associated with that message
RE: disinformation - harm_less - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 02:01 PM)Yogi Wrote:As a moderator (not admin) I help keep the content on this forum civil, factual and essentially legal. Groundswell perhaps didn't do a good enough job of doing so in their online content and have been pulled up on it.(20-11-2021, 01:49 PM)harm_less Wrote: Groundswell's real problem is that any protest held lately decends into a rent-a-mob mentality and I suspect GS's website and/or Facebook reflected the same before a purge prompted by the recent fuss with Nash.So as an administrator of this site you are saying everyone who posts something dumb or anti government that they represent you and your forum?
From their previous protest:
And those are quite tame compared to some I remember seeing.
RE: disinformation - Praktica - 20-11-2021
I see someone is trying to import NZ Issues' culture wars.
RE: disinformation - Yogi - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 02:04 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: While Groundswell may have some valid points, to be protesting when this country is struggling to cope with a pandemic was never going to be a good look.This is the groundswell code of conduct.
And if the racist comments aren't swiftly stamped out, together with the childish claims of a 'communist PM' then that well may damage any credibility they might have.
It has nothing to do with race or anti vax so why would a politician say such a thing.
https://www.motherofallprotests.nz/code-of-conduct
RE: disinformation - nzoomed - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 02:00 PM)Orthelia Wrote: Most farmers are not anti-vaxers but they are against what has being enforced on them byAgreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.
all the unworkable implementations the water issue is just one of them.
This is why GS was incubated from
More and more rights and freedoms are being taken away from farmers and same applies to townies too for that matter.
While it's debatable whether it's communism or not, if people feel that way, it's their freedom to express their concerns. I know a few who feel this is the way the while world is heading, not just NZ.
Farmers are the backbone of this country, and as more have moved to the cities, our connection to the land has sadly dropped away.
I think GS is essentially an overdue release of anger, mostly from farmers who have had a guts full of decades of tougher and tougher regulations.
And who pays for all of this? Us the consumers who have to pay more for food.
RE: disinformation - Lilith7 - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 02:38 PM)Yogi Wrote:I'm going by the images included in a post about an earlier protest; there were both racist comments & one about not wanting a 'communist PM.'(20-11-2021, 02:04 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: While Groundswell may have some valid points, to be protesting when this country is struggling to cope with a pandemic was never going to be a good look.This is the groundswell code of conduct.
And if the racist comments aren't swiftly stamped out, together with the childish claims of a 'communist PM' then that well may damage any credibility they might have.
It has nothing to do with race or anti vax so why would a politician say such a thing.
https://www.motherofallprotests.nz/code-of-conduct
RE: disinformation - king1 - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 02:54 PM)nzoomed Wrote:(20-11-2021, 02:00 PM)Orthelia Wrote: Most farmers are not anti-vaxers but they are against what has being enforced on them byAgreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.
all the unworkable implementations the water issue is just one of them.
This is why GS was incubated from
A key difference is a communist government probably wouldn't recompense the affected parties which our elected government is doing.
I have no problem with it to be honest, most councils have done a crap job of running/maintaining it...
RE: disinformation - Praktica - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 02:54 PM)nzoomed Wrote:I've seen people opposing 3 waters because they see it as a neoliberal attempt to prepare water infrastructure for privatisation.(20-11-2021, 02:00 PM)Orthelia Wrote: Most farmers are not anti-vaxers but they are against what has being enforced on them byAgreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.
all the unworkable implementations the water issue is just one of them.
This is why GS was incubated from
More and more rights and freedoms are being taken away from farmers and same applies to townies too for that matter.
While it's debatable whether it's communism or not, if people feel that way, it's their freedom to express their concerns. I know a few who feel this is the way the while world is heading, not just NZ.
Farmers are the backbone of this country, and as more have moved to the cities, our connection to the land has sadly dropped away.
I think GS is essentially an overdue release of anger, mostly from farmers who have had a guts full of decades of tougher and tougher regulations.
And who pays for all of this? Us the consumers who have to pay more for food.
RE: disinformation - king1 - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 03:20 PM)Praktica Wrote:(20-11-2021, 02:54 PM)nzoomed Wrote: Agreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.I've seen people opposing 3 waters because they see it as a neoliberal attempt to prepare water infrastructure for privatisation.
More and more rights and freedoms are being taken away from farmers and same applies to townies too for that matter.
While it's debatable whether it's communism or not, if people feel that way, it's their freedom to express their concerns. I know a few who feel this is the way the while world is heading, not just NZ.
Farmers are the backbone of this country, and as more have moved to the cities, our connection to the land has sadly dropped away.
I think GS is essentially an overdue release of anger, mostly from farmers who have had a guts full of decades of tougher and tougher regulations.
And who pays for all of this? Us the consumers who have to pay more for food.
That would be bad news of course, pretty sure that isn't a labour agenda though...
RE: disinformation - Lilith7 - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 03:23 PM)king1 Wrote:(20-11-2021, 03:20 PM)Praktica Wrote: I've seen people opposing 3 waters because they see it as a neoliberal attempt to prepare water infrastructure for privatisation.
That would be bad news of course, pretty sure that isn't a labour agenda though...
If that's what they were aiming for then i think they'd quickly find themselves in trouble.
RE: disinformation - harm_less - 20-11-2021
(20-11-2021, 03:16 PM)king1 Wrote:Councils nationwide has major infrastructure neglect issues going on. They typically don't have the clout to push back against industry lobby groups or ratepayer pushback and so necessary maintenance and development doesn't get done, or is implemented to the (financial) advantage of those who have the loudest voice and deepest pockets. By transferring the control of essential infrastructure to central government a more well balanced approach can be implemented to the advantage of all sectors of the population evenly.(20-11-2021, 02:54 PM)nzoomed Wrote: Agreed, and to many people, the whole three waters proposal does scream of communism to many.
A key difference is a communist government probably wouldn't recompense the affected parties which our elected government is doing.
I have no problem with it to be honest, most councils have done a crap job of running/maintaining it...
The continual references to communism by protesters is ill founded in almost all cases and is obviously being voiced by those who have never witnessed communist rule first hand. Under a communist regime their arguments would be shut down very quickly with those voicing them being taken out of circulation. We are a very long way from that degree of control.