Myocarditis caused by Covid vaccine led to Dunedin man's death - coroner

[C_T_Russell]

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/09/20/myoca...h-coroner/

[king1]

it is sad, not unexpected but sad nonetheless.  The conspiracy theorists will be happy they actually got something right...

I find it odd that he survived for two weeks after the vaccine, should he not have had symptoms by then?  Do we know if he got any treatment for them?

[Praktica]

it is sad, not unexpected but sad nonetheless.  The conspiracy theorists will be happy they actually got something right...

I find it odd that he survived for two weeks after the vaccine, should he not have had symptoms by then?  Do we know if he got any treatment for them?

In reports at the time, it was said he had symptoms, and was preparing to go to A&E when he died.

[harm_less]

The sad thing is that there is a chance that the vaccination was injected directly into a blood vessel in his case as being a fit young guy his muscular vascularity would have been well developed but as the MoH's standard practice is to inject what is supposed to be an Intramuscular injection into recipients without checking that it isn't being administered intraveneously by aspirating (drawing back) the syringe there is no way of knowing that this inflammatory substance didn't go straight into the blood stream.

[C_T_Russell]

it is sad, not unexpected but sad nonetheless.  The conspiracy theorists will be happy they actually got something right...

I find it odd that he survived for two weeks after the vaccine, should he not have had symptoms by then?  Do we know if he got any treatment for them?

Quite often the symptoms can be mild or put off as tiredness, etc.
By the time its serious, its often too late, early treatment is cruical.

Its not something I would want, i was quite surprised how the nurse told me that it was the only "known" side effect and that it was "easily treatable" WTF?
Its not exactly easy to treat, especially if its the vaccine causing it, you have to address your bodys immune response in addition to the myocarditis itself. I dont even think the doctors know how to treat vaccine related myocarditis properly, but i guess they have learned a bit now with all the cases they have had to deal with.

[SueDonim]

Some of the news during the inquest reported that the coroner was asking about what information had been given about risks of the vaccine, and I think that is probably key. If (ie IF) he had known the risks, maybe he would have paid more attention to the symptoms when they arose and therefore sought and received timely treatment. So far we've been told that it is now established that the vaccination caused the myocarditis, but was the death caused by the fact that the myocarditis wasn't recognised and treated in time?

It is known that the vaccine can cause myocarditis in about 20 cases per million recipients. Covid itself causes at least double the number of myocarditis cases, and they are more likely to be severe. So in spite of what the CTs are likely to say, having the vaccine is still way safer.

It's also worth noting that other vaccines such as for flu also cause myocarditis, as does catching flu. Vaccines aren't a complete safety net, but are safer than getting sick.

[C_T_Russell]

Some of the news during the inquest reported that the coroner was asking about what information had been given about risks of the vaccine, and I think that is probably key. If (ie IF) he had known the risks, maybe he would have paid more attention to the symptoms when they arose and therefore sought and received timely treatment. So far we've been told that it is now established that the vaccination caused the myocarditis, but was the death caused by the fact that the myocarditis wasn't recognised and treated in time?

It is known that the vaccine can cause myocarditis in about 20 cases per million recipients. Covid itself causes at least double the number of myocarditis cases, and they are more likely to be severe. So in spite of what the CTs are likely to say, having the vaccine is still way safer.

It's also worth noting that other vaccines such as for flu also cause myocarditis, as does catching flu. Vaccines aren't a complete safety net, but are safer than getting sick.

I think there definitely has been an error in not providing this person all the relative info about the risks and benefits of the vaccine.
I must say this is all too much a common issue with many medications and drugs in general, not just vaccines.
Looks like the ministry of health is trying to throw the person under the bus who administered the vaccine and/or their medical practice, looks like they are playing the blame game now.


I know a ton of people who have had the jab and not one of them was informed of any of the risks of receiving the vaccine, all they got told was the usual "safe and effective" narrative that was aired on the TV commercials, if they even mentioned the slightest of risks on any of the propaganda, do you think you would see many lining up to take the jab?
TBH, i was surprised my nurse informed me about the risks (this was prior to any mandates).
Im happy i didnt recieve the jab, even if those risks were low, I was happy to risk catching covid vs the little if any benefit the vaccine was going to provide for a rapidly evolving virus.
Especially for the fact that the vaccine never went through the vigorous trials like many vaccines are required to go through.
Its not a good enough excuse to say that its been administered to millions and is considered safe, any clinical trials require follow ups months and years down the track in many cases, so its too late by the time its dished out to everyone if they discover something is wrong.

Now there is a study in Thailand that suggests about 1 in 300 people have suffered some form of negative symptoms to the vaccine, this is some cause for concern.
I know about 3 people who have suffered reactions to the vaccine, and another one or two people who dint feel the "same" after the first shot and didnt go back for a second.

Only time will tell if this vaccine was worth it.
The reasons other countries suffered so bad with covid such as the US, is because they had the alpha strain spread round in their country which was much more severe, by the time we had delta and omicron, it was a much more mild virus.
There is now even some evidence to suggest RAT tests dont detect the virus anymore because its evolved so much more.

[king1]

Some of the news during the inquest reported that the coroner was asking about what information had been given about risks of the vaccine, and I think that is probably key. If (ie IF) he had known the risks, maybe he would have paid more attention to the symptoms when they arose and therefore sought and received timely treatment. So far we've been told that it is now established that the vaccination caused the myocarditis, but was the death caused by the fact that the myocarditis wasn't recognised and treated in time?

It is known that the vaccine can cause myocarditis in about 20 cases per million recipients. Covid itself causes at least double the number of myocarditis cases, and they are more likely to be severe. So in spite of what the CTs are likely to say, having the vaccine is still way safer.

It's also worth noting that other vaccines such as for flu also cause myocarditis, as does catching flu. Vaccines aren't a complete safety net, but are safer than getting sick.

I think there definitely has been an error in not providing this person all the relative info about the risks and benefits of the vaccine.
I must say this is all too much a common issue with many medications and drugs in general, not just vaccines.
Looks like the ministry of health is trying to throw the person under the bus who administered the vaccine and/or their medical practice, looks like they are playing the blame game now.


I know a ton of people who have had the jab and not one of them was informed of any of the risks of receiving the vaccine, all they got told was the usual "safe and effective" narrative that was aired on the TV commercials, if they even mentioned the slightest of risks on any of the propaganda, do you think you would see many lining up to take the jab?

TBH, i was surprised my nurse informed me about the risks (this was prior to any mandates).
Im happy i didnt recieve the jab, even if those risks were low, I was happy to risk catching covid vs the little if any benefit the vaccine was going to provide for a rapidly evolving virus.

Especially for the fact that the vaccine never went through the vigorous trials like many vaccines are required to go through.
Its not a good enough excuse to say that its been administered to millions and is considered safe, any clinical trials require follow ups months and years down the track in many cases, so its too late by the time its dished out to everyone if they discover something is wrong.

Now there is a study in Thailand that suggests about 1 in 300 people have suffered some form of negative symptoms to the vaccine, this is some cause for concern.
I know about 3 people who have suffered reactions to the vaccine, and another one or two people who dint feel the "same" after the first shot and didnt go back for a second.

Only time will tell if this vaccine was worth it.
The reasons other countries suffered so bad with covid such as the US, is because they had the alpha strain spread round in their country which was much more severe, by the time we had delta and omicron, it was a much more mild virus.
There is now even some evidence to suggest RAT tests dont detect the virus anymore because its evolved so much more.

Some of that is just BS CT.

• It has been made clear that the risk of myocarditis was not required to be spelled out in the early days, it was not an oversight or omission - just not considered enough I guess with the current thinking at the time.  Everyone was learning fast as the pandemic progressed
  
• There were obviously clinical trials, they were accelerated, and on smaller sample groups (about 50,000) than normal, but they were done - time was of the essence obviously...   Clinical trials, safety reviews are still progressing now.
  
• America:  well those douchebags avoided lockdowns until the last minute, and a federal government that had an idiot in charge and no real teeth or inclination to mandate anything - that is why they had such high numbers of deaths (all attributable to 'the Don' IMHO).  We avoided this by being able to institute lockdowns during the alpha strain, prior to the release of vaccines.  
  

I have heard that the rats don't show a positive result until you've had covid for a few days before the symptoms show up, so from that point of view I think they are just a little bit pointless now...

[C_T_Russell]

I think there definitely has been an error in not providing this person all the relative info about the risks and benefits of the vaccine.
I must say this is all too much a common issue with many medications and drugs in general, not just vaccines.
Looks like the ministry of health is trying to throw the person under the bus who administered the vaccine and/or their medical practice, looks like they are playing the blame game now.


I know a ton of people who have had the jab and not one of them was informed of any of the risks of receiving the vaccine, all they got told was the usual "safe and effective" narrative that was aired on the TV commercials, if they even mentioned the slightest of risks on any of the propaganda, do you think you would see many lining up to take the jab?

TBH, i was surprised my nurse informed me about the risks (this was prior to any mandates).
Im happy i didnt recieve the jab, even if those risks were low, I was happy to risk catching covid vs the little if any benefit the vaccine was going to provide for a rapidly evolving virus.

Especially for the fact that the vaccine never went through the vigorous trials like many vaccines are required to go through.
Its not a good enough excuse to say that its been administered to millions and is considered safe, any clinical trials require follow ups months and years down the track in many cases, so its too late by the time its dished out to everyone if they discover something is wrong.

Now there is a study in Thailand that suggests about 1 in 300 people have suffered some form of negative symptoms to the vaccine, this is some cause for concern.
I know about 3 people who have suffered reactions to the vaccine, and another one or two people who dint feel the "same" after the first shot and didnt go back for a second.

Only time will tell if this vaccine was worth it.
The reasons other countries suffered so bad with covid such as the US, is because they had the alpha strain spread round in their country which was much more severe, by the time we had delta and omicron, it was a much more mild virus.
There is now even some evidence to suggest RAT tests dont detect the virus anymore because its evolved so much more.

Some of that is just BS CT.

• It has been made clear that the risk of myocarditis was not required to be spelled out in the early days, it was not an oversight or omission - just not considered enough I guess with the current thinking at the time.  Everyone was learning fast as the pandemic progressed
  
• There were obviously clinical trials, they were accelerated, and on smaller sample groups (about 50,000) than normal, but they were done - time was of the essence obviously...   Clinical trials, safety reviews are still progressing now.
  
• America:  well those douchebags avoided lockdowns until the last minute, and a federal government that had an idiot in charge and no real teeth or inclination to mandate anything - that is why they had such high numbers of deaths (all attributable to 'the Don' IMHO).  We avoided this by being able to institute lockdowns during the alpha strain, prior to the release of vaccines.  
  

I have heard that the rats don't show a positive result until you've had covid for a few days before the symptoms show up, so from that point of view I think they are just a little bit pointless now...

My nurse told me about the myocarditis well before it was even rolled out on a mass scale in NZ, so this should have been something mentioned to the patient involved here.
If clinical trials are still progressing, what does that say? Whats even the point of it all if its been given to billions of people by now and they find something serious?

Why do we have to wait 55 years for all this data?
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government...021-11-18/

Also I want to see the clear data of the rates of myocarditis for unvaxxed vs vaxxed, I cant find anything.

My RATs test gave me a weak positive on the second day I had symptoms, and on the third day it was a strong reading, now it appears it takes much longer as you say, that could be also due to people receiving natural immunity after previously having caught covid, so their bodys immune system is fighting it off much faster before many virus particles can be shed.

[king1]

Some of that is just BS CT.

• It has been made clear that the risk of myocarditis was not required to be spelled out in the early days, it was not an oversight or omission - just not considered enough I guess with the current thinking at the time.  Everyone was learning fast as the pandemic progressed
  
• There were obviously clinical trials, they were accelerated, and on smaller sample groups (about 50,000) than normal, but they were done - time was of the essence obviously...   Clinical trials, safety reviews are still progressing now.
  
• America:  well those douchebags avoided lockdowns until the last minute, and a federal government that had an idiot in charge and no real teeth or inclination to mandate anything - that is why they had such high numbers of deaths (all attributable to 'the Don' IMHO).  We avoided this by being able to institute lockdowns during the alpha strain, prior to the release of vaccines.  
  

I have heard that the rats don't show a positive result until you've had covid for a few days before the symptoms show up, so from that point of view I think they are just a little bit pointless now...

My nurse told me about the myocarditis well before it was even rolled out on a mass scale in NZ, so this should have been something mentioned to the patient involved here.
If clinical trials are still progressing, what does that say? Whats even the point of it all if its been given to billions of people by now and they find something serious?

Why do we have to wait 55 years for all this data?
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government...021-11-18/

Also I want to see the clear data of the rates of myocarditis for unvaxxed vs vaxxed, I cant find anything.

My RATs test gave me a weak positive on the second day I had symptoms, and on the third day it was a strong reading, now it appears it takes much longer as you say, that could be also due to people receiving natural immunity after previously having caught covid, so their bodys immune system is fighting it off much faster before many virus particles can be shed.

Probably a question for your Nurse, but it would start with I wasn't required to... obviously some did...

Ongoing clinical trials
Ongoing clinical trials, safety monitoring, and real-world data from COVID-19 vaccination programmes worldwide provide us with useful information. This includes the long-term safety and benefits of the vaccine.

Monitoring clinical trial participants
To understand the long-term efficacy and safety of the vaccine, participants in the clinical trials are tracked for at least two years from their second dose of the Pfizer vaccine.
Participants will:

• have their health monitored
  
  
• attend regular follow-up visits.
  

This is closely observed by Pfizer/BioNTech and an independent group of experts called the Independent Data Monitoring Committee. They decide if a clinical trial can continue.

Reviewing new data and evidence
Regulatory authorities, like Medsafe, have procedures to closely review all new data and will update their recommendations as this becomes available.

https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-nove...ng#ongoing

Only in America, it was the same for the JFK assassination

[SueDonim]

Some of that is just BS CT.

• It has been made clear that the risk of myocarditis was not required to be spelled out in the early days, it was not an oversight or omission - just not considered enough I guess with the current thinking at the time.  Everyone was learning fast as the pandemic progressed
  
• There were obviously clinical trials, they were accelerated, and on smaller sample groups (about 50,000) than normal, but they were done - time was of the essence obviously...   Clinical trials, safety reviews are still progressing now.
  
• America:  well those douchebags avoided lockdowns until the last minute, and a federal government that had an idiot in charge and no real teeth or inclination to mandate anything - that is why they had such high numbers of deaths (all attributable to 'the Don' IMHO).  We avoided this by being able to institute lockdowns during the alpha strain, prior to the release of vaccines.  
  

I have heard that the rats don't show a positive result until you've had covid for a few days before the symptoms show up, so from that point of view I think they are just a little bit pointless now...

If clinical trials are still progressing, what does that say? Whats even the point of it all if its been given to billions of people by now and they find something serious?



Also I want to see the clear data of the rates of myocarditis for unvaxxed vs vaxxed, I cant find anything.

Clinical trials are always progressing. At the moment there is a new vaccine that is specific to Omicron. And there is also a lot of background work being done on a vaccine for all corona viruses - ie flu, some colds, and Covid. Also, the idea of the vaccines we have had as being too fast through the systems - development started after the first SARS virus hit in 2002. It was clear then that although that one died out quickly, another one would eventually hit and the work continued over the 18 years in between. It was only some of the stages needed to get the new vaccines out and available that were hurried through.


This is some of what I was looking at this morning when I gave the broad figures above...

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories...yocarditis
and
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10....121.056135


Also
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34341797/ about under-20s Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine."

plus this one about flu"
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2019-...ts-flu.htm
and


Every trial has different data presented in different ways. Look for reviews for collation and understand that everything moves so fast that what was "right" yesterday is "wrong" today and new data builds on the old.

[C_T_Russell]

If clinical trials are still progressing, what does that say? Whats even the point of it all if its been given to billions of people by now and they find something serious?



Also I want to see the clear data of the rates of myocarditis for unvaxxed vs vaxxed, I cant find anything.

Clinical trials are always progressing. At the moment there is a new vaccine that is specific to Omicron. And there is also a lot of background work being done on a vaccine for all corona viruses - ie flu, some colds, and Covid. Also, the idea of the vaccines we have had as being too fast through the systems - development started after the first SARS virus hit in 2002. It was clear then that although that one died out quickly, another one would eventually hit and the work continued over the 18 years in between. It was only some of the stages needed to get the new vaccines out and available that were hurried through.


This is some of what I was looking at this morning when I gave the broad figures above...

https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories...yocarditis
and
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10....121.056135


Also
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34341797/ about under-20s Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine."

plus this one about flu"
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2019-...ts-flu.htm
and


Every trial has different data presented in different ways. Look for reviews for collation and understand that everything moves so fast that what was "right" yesterday is "wrong" today and new data builds on the old.

I dont think it was mRNA vaccines that were being developed way back when SARS was a concern though.
Yes there is a vaccine that can protect against omicron, but have no idea how it holds up to many of the subvariants.
Ive been watching the development of a vaccine in Australia that claims to protect against virtually all variants and even future variants, im not sure its exact mechanism on what it targets, but must be some universal protein found in this class of viruses or something.

I would be interested to see how many of the covid deaths involved myocarditis, that would give us some real solid data.

[king1]

I would be interested to see how many of the covid deaths involved myocarditis, that would give us some real solid data.

apparently 0.2% according to here
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...4821001806

[SueDonim]

I dont think it was mRNA vaccines that were being developed way back when SARS was a concern though.

Yes it was. Work on mRNA dates from the 60s. Flu vaccines were trialled in mice in the 1990s and rabies vaccine in humans from 2013. By 2018 "US-based scientists said that mRNA vaccines represented a promising alternative to conventional vaccine approaches because of their high potency, capacity for rapid development and potential for low-cost manufacture and safe administration." Covid 19 came after that.