What are the treaty principles?

[C_T_Russell]

No one can find that answer, bit like religions many unanswered questions.
Good thing we have Dave Seymour to take this on and define them.
The Maori should be on board with this, but TPM would rather organize a car-koi and recruit more people against pakeha.

Who wouldn't want equal rights for all? What is wrong with David Seymours treaty principles bill exactly?

Seems TPM want more division and are wanting their own race based parliament, it's pretty evident who wants to go against the treaty isn't it?

[harm_less]

ACTs dead end Treaty bill is all about preparing the way for privatisation of public assets. We discussed this a while back but to save you scrolling back through historic threads avail yourself of the info here: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/30-09-...principles

[king1]

exactly why should 'Maori be onboard' with this CT?

[Oh_hunnihunni]

As soon as someone plays silly games with other people's languages they reveal something important about themself.

Primarily, their ignorance.

CT, it isn't hard to understand the Treaty. There are stacks of books on the subject, most available for free from your local library. They even have librarians who can suggest your best options. They even have them for kids.

Ignorance on this subject is a choice.

Some politicians rely on people being too lazy to bother learning.

[Lilith7]

ACT knows very well that most don't know/don't understand all of the treaty principles.

Indeed, they're counting on that.
Blinded by those dollar signs in their eyes, they're hoping to sow dissension...


They really are vile.

[zqwerty]

Maori smart enough to be wary, whenever white man come along offering deals, run in the opposite direction is a good rule.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

The first dairy farm in this country was run by Maori.

Just thinking...

[C_T_Russell]

ACTs dead end Treaty bill is all about preparing the way for privatisation of public assets. We discussed this a while back but to save you scrolling back through historic threads avail yourself of the info here: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/30-09-...principles

Who says this is going to happen? What "maori" assets would be sold off exactly? The last govt was opening the doors to privatization of our water assets with 3 waters, despite the so-called co-governance model.

exactly why should 'Maori be onboard' with this CT?

Because it is ensuring them the same rights and dignity for everybody as defined in the treaty.

As soon as someone plays silly games with other people's languages they reveal something important about themself.

Primarily, their ignorance.

CT, it isn't hard to understand the Treaty. There are stacks of books on the subject, most available for free from your local library. They even have librarians who can suggest your best options. They even have them for kids.

Ignorance on this subject is a choice.

Some politicians rely on people being too lazy to bother learning.

Except many books are censored if they dont fit the agenda, so you only get one side of the story.

Look just what is happening here with the hutt city council.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/360515...ty-council

ACT knows very well that most don't know/don't understand all of the treaty principles.

Indeed, they're counting on that.
Blinded by those dollar signs in their eyes, they're hoping to sow dissension...


They really are vile.

Its the other way round, if it wasnt for Jacinda and her co-governance policies, none of this would have even happened.
Tell me what the treaty principles are? I still dont have an answer and this is what Dave Seymour is addressing.
I should note that this bill was put together by many experts in the field, including people who were long standing in the Waitangi Tribunal.

And I tell you who is vile, and its that guy who wears the cowboy hat, t-shirt, jandals and sunglasses in Parliment. Thats who, their whole partly is nothing but disrespectful the way they carry on in there, it disgusts me.
You think its OK to get up and do a war dance in parliment and do finger pointing gun gestures at the opposition MPs?

Thankfully we have Winston and Seymour to address this, they are both doing an incredible job right now, I just hope Luxon has the balls to go through with this bill and support it because this crap has gotten out of hand for way too long now.

The treaty principles mean one law for all and equal rights for everyone, I dont see whats wrong with any of these principles, since when did giving a separate set of rights based on ancestry work out well?
It worked out well in South Africa and Nazi Germany didnt it? Thats where we are heading right now if this does not get addressed, there is absolutely zero room for any race based politics in this country.
You give them an inch and they will take a mile, TPM are already demanding a maori parliament, this goes against the treaty.
The car-koi was just a recruitment drive for TPM and a funding drive for Hone Harawira and his mates, nothing more.

Im sick of all this crap that would have only gotten worse under co-governance. I have a friend who cant even put a new driveway on his own property without spending tens of thousands on consulting with multiple iwi who all are squabbling and fighting between themselves over who has the authority over a private individuals own land, this BS has to stop, and naturally he voted ACT.

Maori smart enough to be wary, whenever white man come along offering deals, run in the opposite direction is a good rule.

Smart enough to have signed the treaty and knew what it meant, not future generations who re-interpret it to suit their agendas.

The first dairy farm in this country was run by Maori.

Just thinking...

Exactly the proof that Maori are capable of great things just like the rest of us, there is nothing stopping them doing just this today, need to get more Maori off the Dole and onto farms.

[zqwerty]

But you don't seem to get it, C_T_Russell, in the big picture, no one is going anywhere ever, the Earth has been going round the Sun for a long time and that, with any luck will continue, Maori know that Pakeha rushing around trying to gain the illusion that there is some sort of final goal and if we all work hard enough we will get it is exactly the type of treadmill they don't want to get aboard, they want to live life their own way and stuff the Pakeha and their crazy dream.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH C_T_Russell

Further-more they also know that Pakeha and deals is the last thing to get involved with unless you want to get ripped off, as in the past. The Treaty of Waitangi is good enough as it stands and needs no alteration or re-interpretation, especially not guided by that half wit Seymour who is an obvious person not to trust under any circumstances if you have any belief in gut feelings which I am sure Maori do.

To sum up: No one is going anywhere, there is no wonderful future beside persevering, we need to treasure the Earth and look after it, not exploit it, nurture it.

Pakeha striving as a way of life have brought us to the brink of a perilous future of Global Climate Crisis, wake up and change your ways or else we all die.

[C_T_Russell]

But you don't seem to get it, C_T_Russell, in the big picture, no one is going anywhere ever, the Earth has been going round the Sun for a long time and that, with any luck will continue, Maori know that Pakeha rushing around trying to gain the illusion that there is some sort of final goal and if we all work hard enough we will get it is exactly the type of treadmill they don't want to get aboard, they want to live life their own way and stuff the Pakeha and their crazy dream.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH C_T_Russell

Further-more they also know that Pakeha and deals is the last thing to get involved with unless you want to get ripped off, as in the past.  The Treaty of Waitangi is good enough as it stands and needs no alteration or re-interpretation, especially not guided by that half wit Seymour who is an obvious person not to trust under any circumstances if you have any belief in gut feelings which I am sure Maori do.

To sum up: No one is going anywhere, there is no wonderful future beside persevering, we need to treasure the Earth and look after it, not exploit it, nurture it.

Pakeha striving as a way of life have brought us to the brink of a perilous future of Global Climate Crisis, wake up and change your ways or else we all die.

Then this division needs to stop and the co-governance needs to go.
You are fortunate you dont have to consult iwi over a driveway on your own land dont you? Do you think this is fair? The maori have way too much say and authority as it stands.
My friend has given up on the idea because he is refusing to give them thousands on BS consultation fees.
Hopefully this might change sometime in the not too distant future but im not holding up much hope.

And I do agree with you that the treaty is good enough as it stands, so why was it then that it was rewritten to introduce some undefined principles in 1975?
David Seymour is simply trying to make amends to a botched up piece of legislation thats almost 50 years old.

Might be better to become a republic and go back to He Whakaputanga which was our original declaration of independence.

And as far as this fabricated climate crisis goes, none of that has anything to do with the treaty or colonization, the rest of the world is burning up all the oil they can beyond Maori control.
You really think we will all die from climate change? Get a grip, the earth has had higher sea levels in the past and live has moved on and learned to adapt.

[zqwerty]

I have no doubt that if we as a group, ie humans, carry on the way we are doing them large numbers will die.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

But you don't seem to get it, C_T_Russell, in the big picture, no one is going anywhere ever, the Earth has been going round the Sun for a long time and that, with any luck will continue, Maori know that Pakeha rushing around trying to gain the illusion that there is some sort of final goal and if we all work hard enough we will get it is exactly the type of treadmill they don't want to get aboard, they want to live life their own way and stuff the Pakeha and their crazy dream.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH C_T_Russell

Further-more they also know that Pakeha and deals is the last thing to get involved with unless you want to get ripped off, as in the past.  The Treaty of Waitangi is good enough as it stands and needs no alteration or re-interpretation, especially not guided by that half wit Seymour who is an obvious person not to trust under any circumstances if you have any belief in gut feelings which I am sure Maori do.

To sum up: No one is going anywhere, there is no wonderful future beside persevering, we need to treasure the Earth and look after it, not exploit it, nurture it.

Pakeha striving as a way of life have brought us to the brink of a perilous future of Global Climate Crisis, wake up and change your ways or else we all die.

Then this division needs to stop and the co-governance needs to go.
You are fortunate you dont have to consult iwi over a driveway on your own land dont you? Do you think this is fair? The maori have way too much say and authority as it stands.
My friend has given up on the idea because he is refusing to give them thousands on BS consultation fees.
Hopefully this might change sometime in the not too distant future but im not holding up much hope.

And I do agree with you that the treaty is good enough as it stands, so why was it then that it was rewritten to introduce some undefined principles in 1975?
David Seymour is simply trying to make amends to a botched up piece of legislation thats almost 50 years old.

Might be better to become a republic and go back to He Whakaputanga which was our original declaration of independence.

And as far as this fabricated climate crisis goes, none of that has anything to do with the treaty or colonization, the rest of the world is burning up all the oil they can beyond Maori control.
You really think we will all die from climate change? Get a grip, the earth has had higher sea levels in the past and live has moved on and learned to adapt.

The planet will survive, human beings as a species may not. Research it CT. Look up when the last climate challenge periods were and what kind of himan populations were around during them.

Most of our cities are on coastlines. Most of our food plants are adapted to a limited climate range. Most of our immune systems have evolved to deal with a limited number of viruses. There are eight billion of us. We can't feed, house, or medically manage that lot now - how the hell do you think we'll survive change on the scale predicted?

The maddening thing is the only thing stopping us preparing now, stopping us making the changes we could to offset the damage - is ourselves. We are our own worst enemies.

Stupid people.