That vote at 16 thing...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Seems a bit strange to deny people the vote on the basis of age when at that age they are legally entitled to do all kinds of things, including get married, drive a car, consent or refuse medical treatment, have babies - or father them, change their name, leave home, leave school, get a firearms licence, be charged, represent their country overseas, and all sorts of other stuff...

But casting one vote among many? We can't let them do that? Can't grant them that privilege?

But, we allow so many incompetent adults to do it without issue. Bit precious of us 'grown ups' don't you think?

[king1]

I would imagine those against are those who have something to lose, greens might do quite well out of it...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

What could they lose by widening the voting base? I suspect there are just as many conservatives or radicals among the young as there are among the middle aged. They just have fewer wrinkles...

I think we are hung up on developmental milestones, despite knowing those are hugely variable across the entire population.

[Lilith7]

I'm not in favour, due to oyur brains not being fully formed till mid 20's. But I also think that its unfair to allow other things at that age; perhaps we may in future need to look at changing some things presently seen as being OK.

[C_T_Russell]

Seems a bit strange to deny people the vote on the basis of age when at that age they are legally entitled to do all kinds of things, including get married, drive a car, consent or refuse medical treatment, have babies - or father them, change their name, leave home, leave school, get a firearms licence, be charged, represent their country overseas, and all sorts of other stuff...

But casting one vote among many? We can't let them do that? Can't grant them that privilege?

But, we allow so many incompetent adults to do it without issue. Bit precious of us 'grown ups' don't you think?

So with that reasoning, you would be happy for 16 year olds to buy cigarettes and alcohol?
The fact is most that age have no clue on politics let alone people at 18 years of age.
The only reason they want to lower the voting age is to get more voters to vote to the left, pure and simple.

---

I would imagine those against are those who have something to lose, greens might do quite well out of it...

100%

[harm_less]

Seems a bit strange to deny people the vote on the basis of age when at that age they are legally entitled to do all kinds of things, including get married, drive a car, consent or refuse medical treatment, have babies - or father them, change their name, leave home, leave school, get a firearms licence, be charged, represent their country overseas, and all sorts of other stuff...

But casting one vote among many? We can't let them do that? Can't grant them that privilege?

But, we allow so many incompetent adults to do it without issue. Bit precious of us 'grown ups' don't you think?

So with that reasoning, you would be happy for 16 year olds to buy cigarettes and alcohol?
The fact is most that age have no clue on politics let alone people at 18 years of age.
The only reason they want to lower the voting age is to get more voters to vote to the left, pure and simple.

---

I would imagine those against are those who have something to lose, greens might do quite well out of it...

100%

Going by your responses I assume you are averse to allowing those whose future will be most affected by government policy (and particularly environmental issues) due to the simple truth that they have a longer future ahead of them.

The younger the voter the less likely they will vote based on the historical investments and philosophical baggage they possess.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

16 year olds are buying drugs and alcohol. Vaping, getting into trouble, have police records, get injured, get themselves killed - so what?

So do a hell of a lot of adults.

---

So with that reasoning, you would be happy for 16 year olds to buy cigarettes and alcohol?
The fact is most that age have no clue on politics let alone people at 18 years of age.
The only reason they want to lower the voting age is to get more voters to vote to the left, pure and simple.

---

100%

Going by your responses I assume you are averse to allowing those whose future will be most affected by government policy (and particularly environmental issues) due to the simple truth that they have a longer future ahead of them.

The younger the voter the less likely they will vote based on the historical investments and philosophical baggage they possess.

Exactly. They are also more likely to be better educated than most adult voters...

[C_T_Russell]

16 year olds are buying drugs and alcohol. Vaping, getting into trouble, have police records, get injured, get themselves killed - so what?

So do a hell of a lot of adults.

---

Going by your responses I assume you are averse to allowing those whose future will be most affected by government policy (and particularly environmental issues) due to the simple truth that they have a longer future ahead of them.

The younger the voter the less likely they will vote based on the historical investments and philosophical baggage they possess.

Exactly. They are also more likely to be better educated than most adult voters...

You are contradicting yourself, you claim its about human lives, but at the same time happy if they continue to buy drugs and alcohol and harm their health.
The pure truth is schools indoctrinate radical left politics in class and they are likely to vote left. I.e greens.
The whole country will turn communist at that rate.

[Zurdo]

At 16 I was working for a living, hearing political discussions at work, reading newspapers and watching the news on TV...I was starting for form views on my world, I was learning new things they didn't teach me at school. I think I was ready to vote. But 16 year olds these days ?

[harm_less]

You are contradicting yourself, you claim its about human lives, but at the same time happy if they continue to buy drugs and alcohol and harm their health.
The pure truth is schools indoctrinate radical left politics in class and they are likely to vote left. I.e greens.
The whole country will turn communist at that rate.

"philosophical baggage"... I rest my case.

[C_T_Russell]

At 16 I was working for a living, hearing political discussions at work, reading newspapers and watching the news on TV...I was starting for form views on my world, I was learning new things they didn't teach me at school. I think I was ready to vote. But 16 year olds these days ?

I agree.
Biggest issue is kids don't see a future and are being told they have to stop eating meat to save the planet.
They also feel helpless and will vote left to get handouts at the expense of those who have been successful.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

16 year olds are buying drugs and alcohol. Vaping, getting into trouble, have police records, get injured, get themselves killed - so what?

So do a hell of a lot of adults.

---

Exactly. They are also more likely to be better educated than most adult voters...

You are contradicting yourself, you claim its about human lives, but at the same time happy if they continue to buy drugs and alcohol and harm their health.
The pure truth is schools indoctrinate radical left politics in class and they are likely to vote left. I.e greens.
The whole country will turn communist at that rate.

That isn't pure truth. It's pure something else, but I'm trying to be ladylike today. Seems to me you haven't been in a school for quite a while.

And nowhere did I say I was happy about the reality of other people's lives. I don't however pretend that reality isn't a fact of life. Just because some kids do what some adults do does not mean they shouldn't have similar electoral privileges.

And for the record, we live in a socialist country. It isn't that bad, is it? After all, if it was you would've moved by now, right?

---

By the way, according to Auntie Google, that is about 200,000 young people. 22% approx of 18 year olds voted at the last election - so we might predict similar turnouts for the new group. That's 44000 spread across the electorates.

Not exactly enough to turn Aotearoa into a communist den of iniquity.

Or get the Greens into a majority.

Worse luck.

[C_T_Russell]

You are contradicting yourself, you claim its about human lives, but at the same time happy if they continue to buy drugs and alcohol and harm their health.
The pure truth is schools indoctrinate radical left politics in class and they are likely to vote left. I.e greens.
The whole country will turn communist at that rate.

That isn't pure truth. It's pure something else, but I'm trying to be ladylike today. Seems to me you haven't been in a school for quite a while.

And nowhere did I say I was happy about the reality of other people's lives. I don't however pretend that reality isn't a fact of life. Just because some kids do what some adults do does not mean they shouldn't have similar electoral privileges.

And for the record, we live in a socialist country. It isn't that bad, is it? After all, if it was you would've moved by now, right?

---

By the way, according to Auntie Google, that is about 200,000 young people.  22% approx of 18 year olds voted at the last election - so we might predict similar turnouts for the new group. That's 44000 spread across the electorates.

Not exactly enough to turn Aotearoa into a communist den of iniquity.

Or get the Greens into a majority.

Worse luck.

My friends are showing me the homework their kids are being given with.
It's very real and seems schools are lacking the real life skills.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Uh huh.

So no, you haven't been inside a school for a while then?

There are progressive schools, and very traditional conservative ones. Most follow a curriculum laid down by the same government that put National Standards in place. Guess which party was in charge... Now, while the teaching methods may vary from class to class, external exams and assessments are still carried out externally to the school so your claim of political indoctrination taking place is all in your imagination. Sure, things are very different today to the way previous generations ran things, but so they have to be. The world has moved on, the needs of the community are very different. And satisfying those current and future needs is what schooling is all about.

[R2x1]

Childrens' votes should not be swayed by those who have been brainwashed at school. Voting rights should commence at conception, and be permanently revoked at the moment literacy is demonstrated.
That way the alphabetically early parties should stand a chance by having voters from the cradle to the grave.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

It's those swaying voters causing all the trouble...

[Lilith7]

Childrens' votes should not be swayed by those who have been brainwashed at school. Voting rights should commence at conception, and be permanently revoked at the moment literacy is demonstrated.
That way the alphabetically early parties should stand a chance by having voters from the cradle to the grave.

Hm...so their Mums could 'help' them vote once conceived then. Intriguing idea.

[R2x1]

'It's those swaying voters causing all the trouble..."

It's the demon drink I tell ye

---

Hm...so their Mums could 'help' them vote once conceived then. Intriguing idea.

Obviously only if their Mums are illiterate