USA attacking women's abortion rights again.

[Lilith7]

You're quite a fan of straw-men aren't you.  Anyway, to address your points:

1. The relative historical accuracy of The Guardian vs. "catholic groups" is irrelevant to the current debate. This particular Guardian article was demonstrably false.

2. What a ridiculous assertion.  I likely agree with women being afforded 99.9% of the rights you agree with, with the singular exception being that I don't think they should have the right to kill the human being growing inside of them, purely because they want to.  In the case of genuine medical necessity, i.e. the mother's life would truly otherwise be in danger (e.g. ectopic), even I think that abortion would sadly be required.  And most mothers don't "unfortunately become pregnant" like it is some accident outside of their control.  Where they become pregnant when they didn't want to, it is still usually due to their poor decision making, rather than being entirely outside their control.  I don't think killing another human being should be a "right" to insulate us against our poor decision making.  In the case of pregnancy from rape, that makes up a minute % of abortions, so isn't really all that relevant to the overall debate, however I don't think that one heinous act (rape) justifies another (killing a defenseless human being).

3. & 4. An even more ridiculous assertion.  I'm guessing you agree that murdering another adult should continue to be illegal? Does that mean you think we should all be locked up to prevent us from murdering anyone?  Should we all be locked up to prevent us committing all other potential crimes?  Of course not, so why would I possibly think every pregnant mother should be locked up to prevent them having an abortion.  I get it, you're attempting to paint me as a fringe, Handmaid's Tale-esque women-hater so that you don't need to acknowledge that I'm just a regular decent person that doesn't believe anyone should have the right to kill another human being purely for convenience.

5. What does tubal ligation have to do with abortion? A tubal ligation stops a mother getting pregnant and I've never remotely suggested I think that all women should be forced to have as many children as they can or even that they must be forced to take pot-luck every time they choose to have sex.  Again, you're trying to make me appear a fringe fundamentalist, when that just isn't true.

6. And again, there you go trying to paint me as a "women need to be controlled, men should have all the control and be able to do what they like" type which is just completely baseless.  If a man gets a women pregnant, I think he should be forced to take joint responsibility for the child.  In my opinion, getting a woman pregnant and then ditching her and their child is despicable.  I realise that the practicalities of tracking down and forcing the man to take responsibility can unfortunately be difficult in certain circumstances, however I still don't think that justifies allowing the mother to have the human being inside her killed.  But it is no different to what the situation is if the child is 5 years old, i.e. if the dad walks out on his family and no longer helps to provide, I think he's the lowest of the low, but that still doesn't give the mum the right to kill the 5 year old just because continuing to care for them will become too difficult.

7. Resources and all that.  Yep, I get that but it still isn't a valid justification for killing another human being.  If it was, then it is just as applicable an argument for killing babies after birth or the disabled etc.  Essentially, that argument is "there are too many people, so we need to kill some of them, so lets kill them before we need to actually look at them so that we can pretend they're not actually people".  Yeah, nah.

Lastly, re. the link you posted.  I get all that, re. alleviating poverty, ending rape etc. but it doesn't provide any valid justification for keeping abortion readily available to anyone who wants one until those other issues have been solve.  Western society has made pretty good progress over the last few decades with regard to what is or isn't acceptable behavior by a man towards a women, however we're never going to "end rape" in the same way that we will sadly always have murderers and violent abusers.  And again, I don't think that the evil of rape justifies the evil of killing a defenseless human (I'm undecided re. whether it justifies killing the rapist, with the risk of wrongful conviction swaying me towards sticking with imprisonment).  "Create a strong, loving community where women and girls feel safe and supported in times of need".  Yes to this many times over.  I'm definitely doing all I can to ensure my daughters won't ever feel the need to put them in themselves in a position that could result in an unwanted pregnancy just because they're desperately searching for "love" and "validation".  And I donate significant amounts to several charities that support girls/solo mothers who have been victims of abuse to rehabilitate them and equip them to support themselves so that they are able to escape the evils they've been subject to.  And it is tragic that, as mush as anyone does, there will always still be the impoverished and abused among us.  However, one final time, I still don't in any way see that as justifying the killing of another defenseless human being.

2 And there it is. The idea that women use abortion 'purely because they want to' ; the favourite of the forced birth brigade. 
You manage to  at least acknowledge that to avoid the death of a woman sometimes it has to be abortion which is progress of a kind; there are those who would refuse to allow even that, claiming as usual that 'life is sacred'.

Interesting that you lay all responsibility for contraception solely on women when its far, far easier (& cheaper) for men to take responsibility, as well as less likely to cause them some of the problems women face when using various types of contraception. No, its all just women being irresponsible apparently & nothing to do with the imperfections of contraception.
  Or their 'poor decision making.'


Those were not assertions on my part - they were questions which I was asking to get some idea of your views since there's a variety of views within the forced birth groups, some of whom would ban all forms of contraceptives; though to be fair those tend to be mostly very right wing American groups.

6 That is often not possible - if a man gets someone pregnant & wants to take no responsibility, that isn't all that difficult & has been happening for centuries.

I so wish it was possible to somehow allow you - & all men,  to actually experience pregnancy & birth. The point I think is that if you don't approve of abortion then you never have to have one. No one will ever force you to do so against your will - but the forced birth groups will force women to continue with an unwanted pregnancy, & some of them even if that means the death of that woman.

No woman should ever be forced to have an unwanted abortion & no woman should ever be forced to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.