Oh joy predicted 40c extra on a liter of gas.

[harm_less]

---

I would have an EV tomorrow if it could tow my caravan and could do 1000km to a charge as well as cost less than $25k.

That is my budget and my needs, not wanting much just sensible vehicles like the vast majority need. When are EV manufacturers going to start producing vehicles for the real world instead of useless shopping carts?

I actually know someone who has been supplied with an LDV electric ute, great around town but can only tow 2 tonnes and terrible ground clearance.

Dead right Gazza, in Auckland there are hundreds of nissan leafs with rooted batteries lucky if they could do 50km between charges. Not even possible to drive a newer leaf from Auckland to Tauranga.
As you say they are just shopping carts. My car is worth maybe $800 tops gets a good 50 mpg. If I need to tow my boat Auckland to Waitara what sort of EV can I get for $800?
I note the Communists have kept the gas subsidy on but anyone with brains still wont vote for them, its still the same old party with musical chairs.

The same strategy applies now as it did 5-10 years ago for those that can't justify or afford an EV that meets their needs. For an overwhelming majority of the population their driving comprises 90% of journeys being less than tens of kilometres per day so even a cheap 2nd hand EV satisfies the bulk of their transport needs with 'fueling' costing the equivalent of petrol at <30c/L.

For the few times a year that cargo space, towing capacity or long range is required it makes better economical sense to rent or borrow a better suited vehicle. The fuel savings made during the rest of the year will more than pay for the rental and makes far more sense than owning a vehicle that is only really needed a few days a year.

The idea of an $800 ICE car towing even a dingy for about 300km is stretching the realms of reality so expecting an EV for that price is an equally ridiculous proposition. The old straw man argument of expecting an EV to tow a boat/caravan/heavy duty trailer 1,000km non-stop and it costing less than a cheap secondhand ICE vehicle is also getting real tired and if you're realistically suggesting you undertake such endurance driving my condolences to your family.

Know that EV sales in NZ and worldwide are following, if not exceeding, the s-curve of adoption that is expected. December saw almost 20% of new car sales being BEVs and the rate of EV uptake is increasing ever faster. EV domination is inevitable and arguing that they don't compete against ICEs is all too relatable to the introduction of cars 100 years ago which the incumbants claimed would never out compete horses.

[zkted]

My car is worth maybe $800 tops gets a good 50 mpg.

Is that UK or US gallons ?  Where did you get your gallons from ?  They are bigger than litres, but more expensive, but probably a more economical way to buy fuel...I'll have to look out for these gallons on special.

The Queens gallon 4.5 liters what else squire?

[Olive]

I would have an EV tomorrow if it could tow my caravan and could do 1000km to a charge as well as cost less than $25k.

That is my budget and my needs, not wanting much just sensible vehicles like the vast majority need. When are EV manufacturers going to start producing vehicles for the real world instead of useless shopping carts?

I actually know someone who has been supplied with an LDV electric ute, great around town but can only tow 2 tonnes and terrible ground clearance.

This is a good example of the outdated and selfish "King of the Road" identity that is behind most of the antagonism towards EVs and hybrids, and denial of climate change. Surely the last few days of disastrous rainfall in the North Island are not able to be dismissed. You need to get up to date and forget about your dependence on petrol as part of your identity.

[zkted]

---

Dead right Gazza, in Auckland there are hundreds of nissan leafs with rooted batteries lucky if they could do 50km between charges. Not even possible to drive a newer leaf from Auckland to Tauranga.
As you say they are just shopping carts. My car is worth maybe $800 tops gets a good 50 mpg. If I need to tow my boat Auckland to Waitara what sort of EV can I get for $800?
I note the Communists have kept the gas subsidy on but anyone with brains still wont vote for them, its still the same old party with musical chairs.

The same strategy applies now as it did 5-10 years ago for those that can't justify or afford an EV that meets their needs. For an overwhelming majority of the population their driving comprises 90% of journeys being less than tens of kilometres per day so even a cheap 2nd hand EV satisfies the bulk of their transport needs with 'fueling' costing the equivalent of petrol at <30c/L.

For the few times a year that cargo space, towing capacity or long range is required it makes better economical sense to rent or borrow a better suited vehicle. The fuel savings made during the rest of the year will more than pay for the rental and makes far more sense than owning a vehicle that is only really needed a few days a year.

The idea of an $800 ICE car towing even a dingy for about 300km is stretching the realms of reality so expecting an EV for that price is an equally ridiculous proposition. The old straw man argument of expecting an EV to tow a boat/caravan/heavy duty trailer 1,000km non-stop and it costing less than a cheap secondhand ICE vehicle is also getting real tired and if you're realistically suggesting you undertake such endurance driving my condolences to your family.

Know that EV sales in NZ and worldwide are following, if not exceeding, the s-curve of adoption that is expected. December saw almost 20% of new car sales being BEVs and the rate of EV uptake is increasing ever faster. EV domination is inevitable and arguing that they don't compete against ICEs is all too relatable to the introduction of cars 100 years ago which the incumbants claimed would never out compete horses.

Who said only 300k I also tow from Auckland to Havelock for Seagull racing towing a 14ft 6" boat thats about 800km. 1.3 liter ford ka manual gearbox. Not saying it does 50 mpg towing.So unless they make EV vehicles this cheap with batteries that could last least last 30 yrs I guess its ICE for me. Nissan leaf would take about 10 days to get there.

[Zurdo]

The Queens gallon 4.5 liters what else squire?

Where did you get them ? I haven't seen for, like, ages.

[zkted]

The Queens gallon 4.5 liters what else squire?

Where did you get them ?  I haven't seen for, like, ages.

They are in your head as a calculation. Starting using them when I started driving makes more sense to me than liters per 100k

---

I would have an EV tomorrow if it could tow my caravan and could do 1000km to a charge as well as cost less than $25k.

That is my budget and my needs, not wanting much just sensible vehicles like the vast majority need. When are EV manufacturers going to start producing vehicles for the real world instead of useless shopping carts?

I actually know someone who has been supplied with an LDV electric ute, great around town but can only tow 2 tonnes and terrible ground clearance.

This is a good example of the outdated and selfish "King of the Road" identity that is behind most of the antagonism towards EVs and hybrids, and denial of climate change.  Surely the last few days of disastrous rainfall in the North Island are not able to be dismissed.  You need to get up to date and forget about your dependence on petrol as part of your identity.

They sure hammer us on this mb Gazza

[Zurdo]

They are in your head as a calculation. Starting using them when I started driving makes more sense to me than liters per 100k

You find it hard to accept new things in your world ? Like a tax that was removed...and put back on ?

[zkted]

They are in your head as a calculation. Starting using them when I started driving makes more sense to me than liters per 100k

You find it hard to accept new things in your world ?  Like a tax that was removed...and put back on ?

Not a perfect person like you, just a humble country boy from Graham Valley.
Got anymore insults on my thread?

[harm_less]

---

The same strategy applies now as it did 5-10 years ago for those that can't justify or afford an EV that meets their needs. For an overwhelming majority of the population their driving comprises 90% of journeys being less than tens of kilometres per day so even a cheap 2nd hand EV satisfies the bulk of their transport needs with 'fueling' costing the equivalent of petrol at <30c/L.

For the few times a year that cargo space, towing capacity or long range is required it makes better economical sense to rent or borrow a better suited vehicle. The fuel savings made during the rest of the year will more than pay for the rental and makes far more sense than owning a vehicle that is only really needed a few days a year.

The idea of an $800 ICE car towing even a dingy for about 300km is stretching the realms of reality so expecting an EV for that price is an equally ridiculous proposition. The old straw man argument of expecting an EV to tow a boat/caravan/heavy duty trailer 1,000km non-stop and it costing less than a cheap secondhand ICE vehicle is also getting real tired and if you're realistically suggesting you undertake such endurance driving my condolences to your family.

Know that EV sales in NZ and worldwide are following, if not exceeding, the s-curve of adoption that is expected. December saw almost 20% of new car sales being BEVs and the rate of EV uptake is increasing ever faster. EV domination is inevitable and arguing that they don't compete against ICEs is all too relatable to the introduction of cars 100 years ago which the incumbants claimed would never out compete horses.

Who said only 300k I also tow from Auckland to Havelock for Seagull racing towing a 14ft 6" boat thats about 800km. 1.3 liter ford ka manual gearbox. Not saying it does 50 mpg towing.So unless they make EV vehicles this cheap with batteries that could last least last 30 yrs I guess its ICE for me. Nissan leaf would take about 10 days to get there.

Your earlier post stated Auckland to Waitara so 346km. I have difficulties believing anyone in their right mind would consider that a Ford Ka which has a tow rating of less than a tonne will tow a 4.5m boat and trailer anywhere near that far.

Guess you're just going to have to wait a few years for secondhand EVs to come down in price to your expectations, though I would expect you're going to need to replace your poor wee Ka well before that, and a Leaf won't be your recommended choice of EV.

In reply to your comment about getting a hard time on this forum I suggest it's because we don't suffer fools gladly.

---

Not a perfect person like you, just a humble country boy from Graham Valley.
Got anymore insults on my thread?

You're the one that opened the tread with a "commie regime" jibe. If you can't handle a bit of pushback then perhaps back off with the inflammatory comments.

[zkted]

Your earlier post stated Auckland to Waitara so 346km. I have difficulties believing anyone in their right mind would consider that a Ford Ka which has a tow rating of less than a tonne will tow a 4.5m boat and trailer anywhere near that far.

Guess you're just going to have to wait a few years for secondhand EVs to come down in price to your expectations, though I would expect you're going to need to replace your poor wee Ka well before that, and a Leaf won't be your recommended choice of EV.

In reply to your comment about getting a hard time on this forum I suggest it's because we don't suffer fools gladly.

---

Not a perfect person like you, just a humble country boy from Graham Valley.
Got anymore insults on my thread?

You're the one that opened the tread with a "commie regime" jibe. If you can't handle a bit of pushback then perhaps back off with the inflammatory comments.

Well the trailer and boat is light you as would expect as its driven by a 4.5HP engine although British Seagull claims 4.5hp I think its less.
The KA tows it at 100kph no problem.

[Zurdo]

Still running that Seagull on 10:1 ? That's not a lot of petrol, but the oil is more expensive than the fuel.

[zkted]

Still running that Seagull on 10:1 ?  That's not a lot of petrol, but the oil is more expensive than the fuel.

Yep 10:1 they dont have crankcase seals so the oil does the sealing. I use 98 octane and diesel engine oil. I tried race gas once but the engine screamed so I gave it away to stop it parts booking it self.
My theory is that 98 makes for better starting.
Seagull racing is not about winning but the drinking and talking crap about boats and seagull engine theory the more preposterous the better as the drinks flow.

[Zurdo]

We used to get them in the beginning of the season - no start of course. The petrol would've evaporated, the float bowl was full of oil, and the tank was now about 2:1. Early Iron Horse were bronze bush, and later needle rollers...so early engines died on the later 25:1.

[Garysixtyseven]

We live part of the year on the road with our caravan so yes towing every few days. It is not an outdated view at all but a realistic view. EV's are not the answer for the future of our climate but are what politicians have decided. An EV is not much greener at all (at the moment) than an ice vehicle.

Stop looking down your noses at those whose lives rule out driving a shopping/nanna car. As I said so far no company makes an affordable useable for those who don't live in towns vehicle, and a big and what about those new sub divisions where there is no off street parking?

I get sick of the holier than though attitude of EV drivers it seems they might just be the new vegans with their preaching.

[Oldfellah]

We live part of the year on the road with our caravan so yes towing every few days. It is not an outdated view at all but a realistic view. EV's are not the answer for the future of our climate but are what politicians have decided. An EV is not much greener at all (at the moment) than an ice vehicle.

Stop looking down your noses at those whose lives rule out driving a shopping/nanna car. As I said so far no company makes an affordable useable for those who don't live in towns vehicle, and a big and what about those new sub divisions where there is no off street parking?

I get sick of the holier than though attitude of EV drivers it seems they might just be the new vegans with their preaching.

And there is one in particular in this forum that is holier than though about EVs plus being a know all on every other subject but I just ignore the bastard. Its a big world ant it takes all sorts.

[SueDonim]

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They sure hammer us on this mb Gazza

They try. If you feel like a challenge you can argue back. Or you can just laugh at them and carry on. The problem for the message board is that newcomers who get hammered go away and leave the lefties in charge. I hope the current lot of new people stay around for a while. The board needs some variety.

[Oldfellah]

I more or less said that in a previous thread with you new guys joining.

https://tinyurl.com/26p7oca2

[SueDonim]

We live part of the year on the road with our caravan so yes towing every few days. It is not an outdated view at all but a realistic view. EV's are not the answer for the future of our climate but are what politicians have decided. An EV is not much greener at all (at the moment) than an ice vehicle.

Stop looking down your noses at those whose lives rule out driving a shopping/nanna car. As I said so far no company makes an affordable useable for those who don't live in towns vehicle, and a big and what about those new sub divisions where there is no off street parking?

I get sick of the holier than though attitude of EV drivers it seems they might just be the new vegans with their preaching.

Just like zoo animals, people need enrichment and we have huge social problems from those who don't have any. Anything we do uses resources and collectively contributes to the overall climate change problem. But so long as we all do something, we are "doing our bit". Some people enjoy the restrictions of the EV mode of transport. A lot don't. The idea of hiring a vehicle to suit your needs when the EV doesn't is pretty ludicrous. As is the wastage involved in the concept of ditching perfectly good ICE vehicles just to buy a new one that has been imported and still has all the same manufacturing costs including the use of man made petro-chemical materials throughout.

As far as  the fuel tax remission goes, the commentator this morning claiming that it only helps the rich really was being dumb. Everything we eat or use is delivered using diesel transport. That's the important part of the tax remission. The impact for people's private motoring is a nice to have but is not as important for the economy.

[harm_less]

We live part of the year on the road with our caravan so yes towing every few days. It is not an outdated view at all but a realistic view. EV's are not the answer for the future of our climate but are what politicians have decided. An EV is not much greener at all (at the moment) than an ice vehicle.

Stop looking down your noses at those whose lives rule out driving a shopping/nanna car. As I said so far no company makes an affordable useable for those who don't live in towns vehicle, and a big and what about those new sub divisions where there is no off street parking?

I get sick of the holier than though attitude of EV drivers it seems they might just be the new vegans with their preaching.

The attitude of EV proponents is probably more analogous to that of ex-smokers. In both cases not only are there health benefits but also financial benefits and the greater the previous 'addiction' (i.e. distance driven) the more impact on both. Sure the purchase price of EVs currently carries a premium over ICE vehicles but this differential is rapidly reducing with price parity between EVs and ICEs expected within the next couple of years, though probably this won't filter through to 2nd hand vehicles until around the end of the decade with the rapid depreciation on ICEs once EVs become the dominant vehicle choice.

So far as EVs not being 'greener' this is directly related to how much distance is travelled as emissions are ongoing (and usually increasing) for fossil fueled vehicles whereas EVs impact on the environment is minimal once they have been manufactured, especially in the NZ situation which has near 90% of our generation from renewables.

[zqwerty]

WE are just making a rod for our own backs, compared to the rest of the world NZ doesn't have a pollution problem, we are such small fry in the overall scheme of things that our token effort (E.V.'s) is just making a certain portion of the NZ community (intellectuals and do-gooders plus those who've already made their money and E.V.'s are like a fashion item) feel good about themselves.

To think that every little bit (absolutely minuscule) helps when we are so far away from polluted areas is silly and shows just how out of touch with reality the population is. The Earth can handle some pollution it's just that there are so many other people in different parts of the world who really have no choice if they want to maintain their life-style. They won't be sacrificing anything, they're too busy competing to the death.