The lie of home detention

[Wainuiguy]

When first introduced in 2007 home detention monitoring via GPS bracelet was sold to the NZ public as being used for non-violent offenders.

However since then it has been given to those who have committed more violent crime placing the NZ public in greater harm.  Today's tragic events in Auckland this morning being the perfect example

• Stuff understands the shooter was sentenced in March on charges of injuring with intent to injure, wilful damage, male assaults female and impeding breathing. 
  

Stuff understands the shooter was sentenced in March on charges of injuring with intent to injure, wilful damage, male assaults female and impeding breathing.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

It isn't a lie. It is one option in a basket of justice and corrections strategies. It does however rely on the cooperation of those granted the option. Let's put blame where it belongs - on the individual, not the system. Going into town with a pump action shotgun was a choice, it had nothing to do with home detention.

[Wainuiguy]

It isn't a lie. It is one option in a basket of justice and corrections strategies. It does however rely on the cooperation of those granted the option. Let's put blame where it belongs - on the individual, not the system. Going into town with a pump action shotgun was a choice, it had nothing to do with home detention.

But home D gave him the opportunity.   Had he been in prison the ability to further offend would have been removed.  Home D was meant to be for non-violent offenses- it has now expanded to be used for those who are convicted of violence.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Yes. It gave him the opportunity to choose to be a responsible citizen, or not. That same opportunity is offered to an awful lot of people with out such disappointing and tragic consequences.

One of which will be to provide fodder for the 'lock 'em up' brigade.

[Kenj]

You forgot the .... "and throw the key away" bit

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Years ago there was another appalling incident with a guy on home D in Birkenhead, and it too brought out the same commentators. I do wonder though if the anti gun control lot will keep schtum on this, because from the reports this pump action shotgun fired a lot of shells in a very short space of time - let alone the question of how he got hold of it.

More ammo to support the call for the gun register perhaps?

[Kenj]

Strange, here's a song I was listening to in bed last night...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY

Believe it or not. like the Urban Myth that The Eagles song, "New York Minute" was being played by one of the NY radio stations as the first plane slammed into one of the twin towers?

[Wainuiguy]

Yes. It gave him the opportunity to choose to be a responsible citizen, or not. That same opportunity is offered to an awful lot of people with out such disappointing and tragic consequences.

One of which will be to provide fodder for the 'lock 'em up' brigade.

Would this have happened if he had been jailed?

He hD already shown that he was unable to be a responsible citizen when he violently assaulted his partner and destroyed property.  Now he has destroyed another 3 lives.

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Strange, here's a song I was listening to in bed last night...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY

Believe it or not. like the Urban Myth that The Eagles song, "New York Minute" was being played by one of the NY radio stations as the first plane slammed into one of the twin towers?

As there are hundreds of Radio stations In the NY area that is a possibility

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Just as there are hundreds if not more offenders on home D who do not grab a shotgun, or a knife and go murder their workmates. Or near neighbours.

Why should they be further punished because one damned fool couldn't use his brains to make better choices?

[dken31]

So....
Increase gun control for thousands of law-abiding decent gun owners, because one "damned fool couldn't use his brains to make better choices", but don't put known violent offenders in jail because most of them will probably make wise choices and abide by the home D restrictions placed on them (even though the actions leading to their convictions might suggest otherwise).

Yeah, nah, yeah, that sounds like a really well thought out and entirely logical position to take.

[Wainuiguy]

So....
Increase gun control for thousands of law-abiding decent gun owners, because one "damned fool couldn't use his brains to make better choices", but don't put known violent offenders in jail because most of them will probably make wise choices and abide by the home D restrictions placed on them (even though the actions leading to their convictions might suggest otherwise).

Yeah, nah, yeah, that sounds like a really well thought out and entirely logical position to take.

This is the post of the day

[Lilith7]

Years ago there was another appalling incident with a guy on home D in Birkenhead, and it too brought out the same commentators. I do wonder though if the anti gun control lot will keep schtum on this, because from the reports this pump action shotgun fired a lot of shells in a very short space of time - let alone the question of how he got hold of it.

More ammo to support the call for the gun register perhaps?

Almost certainly little or no comment from the anti gun control people. But plenty from the lock them up & chuck the key up the gully brigade. 

If only it worked...

The radio news  had an item on this, followed closely by an item stating that 'the FIFA cup would still go ahead'. Oh well that's alright then eh, as  long as no one has their sport disrupted, everything is just wonderful.


Never mind looking at what might have led to this man's actions & trying to prevent others taking the same path.

Or why anyone outside the military has any need  for a pump action shotgun.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3...al-injured

[Oh_hunnihunni]

So....
Increase gun control for thousands of law-abiding decent gun owners, because one "damned fool couldn't use his brains to make better choices", but don't put known violent offenders in jail because most of them will probably make wise choices and abide by the home D restrictions placed on them (even though the actions leading to their convictions might suggest otherwise).

Yeah, nah, yeah, that sounds like a really well thought out and entirely logical position to take.

Once again you overlay your preconceptions onto my post. Where did I express a position on increasing gun control? Gun registration is a very different thing. Knowing where weapons are is useful data that we currently do not have. We already have licencing, which is gun control of licence holders perhaps, but it isn't stopping illegal weapons. And illegal weapons aren't in the hands of decent law abiding gun owners.

As I was not that long ago.

What do you bet this shotgun is one of those illegal weapons?

While we're on the subject, I know of two violent acts by persons on home D. Do you know of any others? Out of all those with the privilege (which saves us a fortune in corrections costs) currently abiding by the rules...

[harm_less]

The gun used in this morning's incident was being used by a person who had no lawful right to be in possession of it due to his criminal convictions. The question then becomes where he gained possession of the weapon.

If firearms were actually registered, as they will be as the present legislation is implemented, then provenance of ownership of that weapon would become a simple exercise but for now gaining that proof is near impossible.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Exactly. I still fail to see why law abiding decent gun owners could possibly be against registering their weapons...

It would also be really cool if it meant illegal - unregistered weapons - could be impounded and destroyed when found as well as charges being brought against those in possession.

[R2x1]

Well, although his health may changed a bit, he's still on home detention. Just switched to a funeral home, which has cured the symptoms of a lot of real and imagined complaints.

[Wainuiguy]

Another excellent home D decision:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3...-detention

[Removed: Rule 2J]

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The gun used in this morning's incident was being used by a person who had no lawful right to be in possession of it due to his criminal convictions. The question then becomes where he gained possession of the weapon.

If firearms were actually registered, as they will be as the present legislation is implemented, then provenance of ownership of that weapon would become a simple exercise but for now gaining that proof is near impossible.

An illegally imported weapon will still not be registered.   

Like the buyback registering legal arms still won't solve the issue of illegal weapons in the hands of criminals.

[harm_less]

Another excellent home D decision:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3...-detention

[Removed: Rule 2J]

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The gun used in this morning's incident was being used by a person who had no lawful right to be in possession of it due to his criminal convictions. The question then becomes where he gained possession of the weapon.

If firearms were actually registered, as they will be as the present legislation is implemented, then provenance of ownership of that weapon would become a simple exercise but for now gaining that proof is near impossible.

An illegally imported weapon will still not be registered.   

Like the buyback registering legal arms still won't solve the issue of illegal weapons in the hands of criminals.

I've held a firearm licence for about 30 years and it has always seemed that the non-registration of firearms is a major oversight in the system. Obviously there will always be those who fail to register their weapons, in the same way as there are those who refuse to gain their driver's licence but still drive.
No system is going to be a perfect solution to a system that has been broken for so long but the changes currently being implemented are a good start. It will however be a useful tool for police to gauge risk levels in many situations and allow them to confiscate weapons that remain outside the system as it evolves over time.

Your constant badgering of another member is becoming tedious to other members and must be particularly annoying to that member who seems to be living rent free in your head.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Another excellent home D decision:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3...-detention

[Removed: Rule 2J]

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The gun used in this morning's incident was being used by a person who had no lawful right to be in possession of it due to his criminal convictions. The question then becomes where he gained possession of the weapon.

If firearms were actually registered, as they will be as the present legislation is implemented, then provenance of ownership of that weapon would become a simple exercise but for now gaining that proof is near impossible.

An illegally imported weapon will still not be registered.   

Like the buyback registering legal arms still won't solve the issue of illegal weapons in the hands of criminals.

But when such weapons come to light they can be impounded, destroyed, and those in possession charged.

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This post by Wainuiguy has been deleted.

In your opinion.

Go bully someone who cares if you must continue this obsessive campaign.

[harm_less]

This post by Wainuiguy has been deleted.

It's obvious something has left a strong impression on you but continually dragging through the entrails of your little tiff makes this an uncomfortable place for others. Let it go sunshine