National MP Hamish Campbell associated with Two by Twos,

[C_T_Russell]

a religious sect under investigation by FBI for sexual abuse.

I'm assuming this means he is a practicing member, or alt least once was?
I'm a bit surprised he is involved in politics if so. It's typically prohibited to be involved in politics in these christian fundamentalist groups.
(One exception was the exclusive brethren with their pamphlet campaign in 2005, despite them not allowed to vote.)
It most certainly is prohibited with the Jehovah's witnesses, and this cult shares many similarities.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-m...JIYAZRSHE/

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I am grateful we theoretically separate church and state, but it really is only lip service, which is a bit of a worry for those of us who really do separate faith and governance. Faith can be a powerful driver, as we have seen in the US, Israel, and in some Islamic states, and at its worst it loses the ability to support a humane modern society governed for all its people.

For that reason, I will always be very wary of any political leader who wears the faith on their sleeve.

[Olive]

I saw a suggestion that Brooke van Velden is also a member of the Two by Two sect. Anyone know if that is correct?

[Lilith7]

Its worrying when religion reaches into politics; we only need to look around the world at places like America & Russia, to see what can happen. Perhaps anyone with extreme religious beliefs should be barred from entering politics.

[harm_less]

Its worrying when religion reaches into politics; we only need to look around the world at places like America & Russia, to see what can happen. Perhaps anyone with extreme religious beliefs should be barred from entering politics.

Okay, but where do you draw the line on whether religious beliefs are 'extreme' or devout?

[Lilith7]

Its worrying when religion reaches into politics; we only need to look around the world at places like America & Russia, to see what can happen. Perhaps anyone with extreme religious beliefs should be barred from entering politics.

Okay, but where do you draw the line on whether religious beliefs are 'extreme' or devout?

And that is the $64million question!

Mainly because what seems extreme to some is seen as perfectly normal & acceptable by others. Some Hasidic women shave their heads & wear a wig, a devout means of keeping their hair unseen, in a similar manner to some Muslim  sects.
 Until fairly recently it was also usual for Christian - especially Catholic -  women to have a scarf handy to put over their head if they entered a church.

Mormons don't drink tea or coffee which is odd to most of us. And they have 'Temple garments', which they believe to be holy. They'll apparently be 'pulled into heaven' by their garments.


Probably there would have to be a concensus of some sort i.e. if someone believes that drinking 'purified blood' is holy, then there might be a good chance that they're in need of medical help.


Just had a look & it seems that there really is no limit to the daft things we  can get ourselves to believe.

https://listverse.com/2007/08/13/10-weir...practices/

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Howabout no lines, just remove all references to religion from politics as a matter of course. Starting with insisting this is a Christian country, when it patently is not.

If an MP goes to church, let that be a private thing. Truly separate religion and Parliament, remove the prayers for a start, then remove all references to gods or whatever. It may be part of ritual, or history, or adopted from the Westminister system, but this is the 21st century. We are a diverse community, let us respect all faiths by not giving preference to any single one.

And let them pay tax. All of them.

[Lilith7]

Howabout no lines, just remove all references to religion from politics as a matter of course. Starting with insisting this is a Christian country, when it patently is not.

If an MP goes to church, let that be a private thing. Truly separate religion and Parliament, remove the prayers for a start, then remove all references to gods or whatever. It may be part of ritual, or history, or adopted from the Westminister system, but this is the 21st century. We are a diverse community, let us respect all faiths by not giving preference to any single one.

And let them pay tax. All of them.

Yes,excellent idea. Especially the tax thing.

But there's one tiny problem - it would make good sense...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I remember one year, when I was young and beautiful with a very good working brain, when I paid $54, 000 in income tax. I was stunned that I had had such a great year that I was actually able to do that. I was so proud... And never hit such heady heights again, btw.

I have always understood that paying tax was a privilege. It recognised my efforts in work, and demonstrated I could contribute to the running of my community. I had value as a mere cog, when earning very little or as a worker bee doing all right for myself. I have never understood this need to escape making a contribution to the running of the community that supported me. Maybe those who seek those loopholes don't understand they should have real pride in being privileged to make such a mark.

And why churches should not share that privilege has never sat well with me. After all, do they not benefit from our community, just as the community might benefit from their work?

[Lilith7]

I remember one year, when I was young and beautiful with a very good working brain, when I paid $54, 000 in income tax. I was stunned that I had had such a great year that I was actually able to do that. I was so proud... And never hit such heady heights again, btw.

I have always understood that paying tax was a privilege. It recognised my efforts in work, and demonstrated I could contribute to the running of my community. I had value as a mere cog, when earning very little or as a worker bee doing all right for myself. I have never understood this need to escape making a contribution to the running of the community that supported me. Maybe those who seek those loopholes don't understand they should have real pride in being privileged to make such a mark.

And why churches should not share that privilege has never sat well with me. After all, do they not benefit from our community, just as the community might benefit from their work?

That's it exactly - it should be all of us together, working together,paying taxes for the good of us all because that is what they're for. To help us & those who come after us.


And I can almost hear those cries of hippie/commie/lefty!

[C_T_Russell]

It turns out that this story was a bit overblown ad it turns out.
He was not a member himself, just has family that are members and seems that the group may have had meetings held at his home.

[heisenberg]

It turns out that this story was a bit overblown ad it turns out.
He was not a member himself, just has family that are members and seems that the group may have had meetings held at his home.

that doesnt matter to the left, they are just dung flinging