Government warned for 3 years lending changes would create issues

[reigns]

Don't apologise - that was well said, & sums up the situation very thoughtfully.

I especially liked your final sentence, & I doubt I'll be the only one to appreciate it.

Let me apologise, at least, for cocking the quote formatting up.

[SueDonim]

Apologies for bringing up an old thread but I was away and now I'm semi back and want to reply.

"Rents went up consistently before property investors were bailing out big time ... Renters have been squeezed for ages, it's only now that that squeeze is finally tight enough to hit landlords."

Rents have always gone up, just like everything else. They used to be primarily linked to interest rates, but now also have to incorporate all the extra costs imposed by the government - which the government was warned about... And so on.

[Added - Something has gone seriously wrong with the formatting. I've deleted most of the quote because it has gone haywire.]

Just passing through on the computer, mainly looking at Covid numbers which are getting scary. Our current project is a house we bought 20 years ago and can finally afford to do up "properly". All we had to do to keep it legal for the next tenant was a couple of fans and a bit of tidy up would have kept it livable.

But, it now has garage re-clad and re-roofed, now secure and watertight (it wasn't either before). New house roof just completed. Inside walls and ceilings have had the old pinex stripped off and will be re-gibbed (when we can get some). Kitchen is gone. To be completely rebuilt. Ditto bathroom. Re-wiring underway by the sparky. All flooring will be new. Partner does all the work he can, my role is backup: rubbish (eg piling up all the old sheets of iron); grounds (removing fence around old vege garden (that tenants have never used)); and of course keeping up with background support at home. Etc.

By the time we're finished the house will have been empty for about 12 months (ie no income) and the extra rent will take several years to make up what it has cost. The reward will simply be the income coming in off it in future and the fact that we won't have to be constantly fixing things for the next tenant. Plus the satisfaction of having provided a good service to that next tenant, whoever they might be.

But I'm just an evil landlord and you don't want to engage with me. You've read a couple of biased articles and have had a few experiences to call upon and think you know it all. So I'll just fuck off now and do something meaningful.

[reigns]

Just passing through on the computer, mainly looking at Covid numbers which are getting scary. Our current project is a house we bought 20 years ago and can finally afford to do up "properly". All we had to do to keep it legal for the next tenant was a couple of fans and a bit of tidy up would have kept it livable.

But, it now has garage re-clad and re-roofed, now secure and watertight (it wasn't either before). New house roof just completed. Inside walls and ceilings have had the old pinex stripped off and will be re-gibbed (when we can get some). Kitchen is gone. To be completely rebuilt. Ditto bathroom. Re-wiring underway by the sparky. All flooring will be new. Partner does all the work he can, my role is backup: rubbish (eg piling up all the old sheets of iron); grounds (removing fence around old vege garden (that tenants have never used)); and of course keeping up with background support at home. Etc.

By the time we're finished the house will have been empty for about 12 months (ie no income) and the extra rent will take several years to make up what it has cost. The reward will simply be the income coming in off it in future and the fact that we won't have to be constantly fixing things for the next tenant. Plus the satisfaction of having provided a good service to that next tenant, whoever they might be.

But I'm just an evil landlord and you don't want to engage with me. You've read a couple of biased articles and have had a few experiences to call upon and think you know it all. So I'll just fuck off now and do something meaningful.

Why are you pitching me a sob story? You're an investor, aren't you? This is a business, is it not?

You were renting out an un-secure and non-weathertight property beforehand? And now you're being told to make sure that the house you rent out, at the very least, is at a livable standard that you yourself would live in?

Where exactly do you think the sympathy for your "plight" is meant to come from?

Besides, you also had the choice to flick that rental off in the state you had run it down to and still make a tidy profit no doubt.

Honestly, you can fuck off anywhere you'd like to if you're expecting people to feel bad for you.

[SueDonim]

Just passing through on the computer, mainly looking at Covid numbers which are getting scary. Our current project is a house we bought 20 years ago and can finally afford to do up "properly". All we had to do to keep it legal for the next tenant was a couple of fans and a bit of tidy up would have kept it livable.

But, it now has garage re-clad and re-roofed, now secure and watertight (it wasn't either before). New house roof just completed. Inside walls and ceilings have had the old pinex stripped off and will be re-gibbed (when we can get some). Kitchen is gone. To be completely rebuilt. Ditto bathroom. Re-wiring underway by the sparky. All flooring will be new. Partner does all the work he can, my role is backup: rubbish (eg piling up all the old sheets of iron); grounds (removing fence around old vege garden (that tenants have never used)); and of course keeping up with background support at home. Etc.

By the time we're finished the house will have been empty for about 12 months (ie no income) and the extra rent will take several years to make up what it has cost. The reward will simply be the income coming in off it in future and the fact that we won't have to be constantly fixing things for the next tenant. Plus the satisfaction of having provided a good service to that next tenant, whoever they might be.

But I'm just an evil landlord and you don't want to engage with me. You've read a couple of biased articles and have had a few experiences to call upon and think you know it all. So I'll just fuck off now and do something meaningful.

Why are you pitching me a sob story? You're an investor, aren't you? This is a business, is it not?

You were renting out an un-secure and non-weathertight property beforehand? And now you're being told to make sure that the house you rent out, at the very least, is at a livable standard that you yourself would live in?

Where exactly do you think the sympathy for your "plight" is meant to come from?

Besides, you also had the choice to flick that rental off in the state you had run it down to and still make a tidy profit no doubt.

Honestly, you can fuck off anywhere you'd like to if you're expecting people to feel bad for you.

Please READ. I said the garage was insecure and not weathertight. I said there was nothing really wrong with the house except needing fans. I said we are doing a whole heap of work we didn't have to. For the sake of the next tenant as well as our future well being.

This is not a sob story. It's a story to show you that being a landlord is not all you think it is. There is no plight to expect sympathy from. Just an expectation of respect for people who work hard to achieve a retirement goal that is a bit more than the GRI.

We had not "run it down". It was already a lot better than when we bought it, just not up to the standard we wanted. And as I said, we can finally afford to do it so are doing so. And yes, we could have flicked it off, but are not doing so because we are investors, not traders. Capital gain is pretty irrelevant.

Why are you so bitter and twisted?

[king1]

Fixed the quoting (I think),  perhaps for sake of clarity, if it's not convenient to use the quote button (say commenting on each paragraph), maybe make a point of using a format similar to

king1:  yada yada yada
That is just a load of bollocks...

king1:  yada yada yada
That was a load of bollocks...

or you can use the standard unattributed quote button in the editor toolbar 

yada yada yada

FYI - The standard editor format for an attributed quote is 

  Opening  [*quote*]  tag followed by closing  [/*quote*]  tag - anything between the tags is 'quoted' (asterisk are to prevent it becoming a quote)

You can see all these tags either by using quickedit mode, or the last toolbar button in the editor toggles quickedit mode...

[reigns]

Why are you pitching me a sob story? You're an investor, aren't you? This is a business, is it not?

You were renting out an un-secure and non-weathertight property beforehand? And now you're being told to make sure that the house you rent out, at the very least, is at a livable standard that you yourself would live in?

Where exactly do you think the sympathy for your "plight" is meant to come from?

Besides, you also had the choice to flick that rental off in the state you had run it down to and still make a tidy profit no doubt.

Honestly, you can fuck off anywhere you'd like to if you're expecting people to feel bad for you.

Please READ. I said the garage was insecure and not weathertight. I said there was nothing really wrong with the house except needing fans. I said we are doing a whole heap of work we didn't have to. For the sake of the next tenant as well as our future well being.

This is not a sob story. It's a story to show you that being a landlord is not all you think it is. There is no plight to expect sympathy from. Just an expectation of respect for people who work hard to achieve a retirement goal that is a bit more than the GRI.

We had not "run it down". It was already a lot better than when we bought it, just not up to the standard we wanted. And as I said, we can finally afford to do it so are doing so. And yes, we could have flicked it off, but are not doing so because we are investors, not traders. Capital gain is pretty irrelevant.

Why are you so bitter and twisted?

In whose perspective is the work being done unnecessary? Yours? If it was the only home you owned and you had to live in it, would you have lived in it and done nothing but add a few fans for 20 years?

Maintenance and upkeep standards are higher for you in your own home than they are in one where someone else lives but you own it. That's why, as I linked to earlier, rentals are genuinely of poor quality than owner-occupied ones. You don't have to say if you have done work on your own home in the past 20 years beyond add a few fans but if you have, then that should tell you something about how you care less about the home you own that you don't live in.

And with the rental market as has been, you can always find someone willing to pay market value for a home that you would put less money and effort into than the one you live in.

Your retirement goal is being funded by a market that sets up tenants to be squeezed for as much as possible while landlords get away with putting in as little care and effort as they like. You might even be on the good end of the landlord spectrum but I'd put money on the assumption that you have either spent more money on upgrading and maintaining your own primary residence or you wouldn't have been content to live in your rental for 20 years without doing it up beyond having fans.

But you're on the money. Buying my own home has been a draining experience both mentally and on the bank account. I'm not bitter and twisted for my own sake, I'm bitter and twisted that Kiwi attitudes to housing as a retirement investment - if allowed to continue like older generations have rolled around in it like pigs in shit - will mean that my children's only hope of owning their own home will be to take our one when we die.

The equal and egalitarian Kiwi dream died in the 1980s and landlords have loved it.

[Lilith7]

Just passing through on the computer, mainly looking at Covid numbers which are getting scary. Our current project is a house we bought 20 years ago and can finally afford to do up "properly". All we had to do to keep it legal for the next tenant was a couple of fans and a bit of tidy up would have kept it livable.

But, it now has garage re-clad and re-roofed, now secure and watertight (it wasn't either before). New house roof just completed. Inside walls and ceilings have had the old pinex stripped off and will be re-gibbed (when we can get some). Kitchen is gone. To be completely rebuilt. Ditto bathroom. Re-wiring underway by the sparky. All flooring will be new. Partner does all the work he can, my role is backup: rubbish (eg piling up all the old sheets of iron); grounds (removing fence around old vege garden (that tenants have never used)); and of course keeping up with background support at home. Etc.

By the time we're finished the house will have been empty for about 12 months (ie no income) and the extra rent will take several years to make up what it has cost. The reward will simply be the income coming in off it in future and the fact that we won't have to be constantly fixing things for the next tenant. Plus the satisfaction of having provided a good service to that next tenant, whoever they might be.

But I'm just an evil landlord and you don't want to engage with me. You've read a couple of biased articles and have had a few experiences to call upon and think you know it all. So I'll just fuck off now and do something meaningful.

Why are you pitching me a sob story? You're an investor, aren't you? This is a business, is it not?

You were renting out an un-secure and non-weathertight property beforehand? And now you're being told to make sure that the house you rent out, at the very least, is at a livable standard that you yourself would live in?

Where exactly do you think the sympathy for your "plight" is meant to come from?

Besides, you also had the choice to flick that rental off in the state you had run it down to and still make a tidy profit no doubt.

Honestly, you can fuck off anywhere you'd like to if you're expecting people to feel bad for you.

Can I just quietly say:

welcome back Dooby!  

[Bluezewoo]

That sounds frustrating, and it's understandable why you feel that way. Banks need to ensure that they comply with regulations, but it's also important for them to treat their customers with respect and transparency.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Another zombie thread lurches onto the board, but what a pleasure to read Doob's post. I do wish he had more time for our kind of time frittering engagement... 

[king1]

Another zombie thread lurches onto the board,

been noted... a visitor from Moldova taking an interest in little ol NZ no less...

[Lilith7]

On one hand, national supporters complain about high house prices making it difficult for buyers, and on the other hand they complain when government action leads to a tightening of credit and a drop in the market. What can we deduce from this?

Oooh, oooh...could it be that they're unable to see past those $ in their eyes??!!

---

Another zombie thread lurches onto the board, but what a pleasure to read Doob's post. I do wish he had more time for our kind of time frittering engagement... 

Indeed...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I must say though, despite my adoration of the Doob, that I also enjoy the strong posts we get from SueDonim. There is something true about posts that are strongly worded, direct, and based on real life experience.

Fortunately we are a good bunch of grown ups who can appreciate a differing position without resorting to petty insult,  but still be very definite in our response. It makes for great reading. And not a little food for thought on occasion...