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It will take 80 years to clean up the Waikato River.
#1
https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/in-dept...kato-river

And that's if we actually do it.  Farmers again - oh they will bleat and moan, but they all did jump onto the dairy bandwagon. The river gets dirty brown once the Waipa joins, and so of course it's just not the Waikato River that needs cleaning up...everything that flows into it needs to be sorted.
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#2
I'm not sure how the whole dairy farming process works but it seems to me they should be able to capture all the effluent runoff and transfer it to septic tanks - it works for humans...
The world would be a perfect place, if it wasn't for the humans.

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#3
Many many farmers are doing what they can with plantings to filter water going into drains and creeks etc but, yes, there is a lot more to be done. Meanwhile we complain about the cost of food going up. We can't have it both ways. If farmers are to spend the insurmountable costs in fully cleaning up their act, we won't be able to complain about prices skyrocketing.

And at least farmers are productive - feeding us and providing export income. I think our biggest problem is number of people. If people just stopped to to think before they bred, and if we stopped inviting tourists in to wreck the environment we would achieve more than making life hard for farmers.

We should note the lessons we have learned in the pandemic - that we rely far to much on ephemeral businesses and not enough on core essentials. That we rely too much on other countries instead of working to produce our own. I think farmers get far too much criticism - they are trying, but many others don't put in anywhere near as much effort.
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#4
well on the subject of self sufficiency as a country, we could require that food producers in New Zealand be required to sell a percentage of their product into the New Zealand market, in a pitiful attempt to break this link to the international prices...

I mean at some point, when people are starving in NZ or can't afford healthy food, it seems stupid to be sending food off shore...

I imagine there are plenty of holes with this plan though...
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#5
I had the huge privilege of flying at a relatively low height up the Waikato in an ancient biplane more than forty odd years ago and the thing that struck me most was the rainbow effect across the water from road pollution. When Auckland started drawing water from the river for household use the thought of that in my glass when I moved back from the South Island was too much, I bought a distiller unit and have used it ever since.

We are very slow learners it seems, the clean up of our environment should have started decades ago.

(15-06-2022, 11:41 AM)SueDonim Wrote: Many many farmers are doing what they can with plantings to filter water going into drains and creeks etc but, yes, there is a lot more to be done. Meanwhile we complain about the cost of food going up. We can't have it both ways. If farmers are to spend the insurmountable costs in fully cleaning up their act, we won't be able to complain about prices skyrocketing.

And at least farmers are productive - feeding us and providing export income. I think our biggest problem is number of people. If people just stopped to to think before they bred, and if we stopped inviting tourists in to wreck the environment we would achieve more than making life hard for farmers.

We should note the lessons we have learned in the pandemic - that we rely far to much on ephemeral businesses and not enough on core essentials. That we rely too much on other countries instead of working to produce our own. I think farmers get far too much criticism - they are trying, but many others don't put in anywhere near as much effort.
There are any numbers of ways to produce food in sustainable ways for large populations. Industrial scale food production is happening in many countries now, on large and small scales. If we were serious about climate change and our isolation we would be exploring these ways and means right now and not just leaving it to the bright sparks determined to get into the medical mj market.
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#6
(15-06-2022, 10:51 AM)king1 Wrote: I'm not sure how the whole dairy farming process works but it seems to me they should be able to capture all the effluent runoff and transfer it to septic tanks - it works for humans...
The problem with that strategy is that from what I've read a cow produces the equivalent effluent to about 70 humans. Combine that with them excreting that effluent direct onto the pasture in concentrated areas due to break feeding practices, in most cases except where stand-off pads are used, so it cannot be 'captured' and much of it finds its way into ground water systems, and from there into the nearest waterway (particularly the urine). Add to that the significant and increasing amounts of soluble fertilizers such as urea and super phosphate which leech down into the water tables and the problem is huge and not easily dealt with.

(15-06-2022, 11:41 AM)SueDonim Wrote: Many many farmers are doing what they can with plantings to filter water going into drains and creeks etc but, yes, there is a lot more to be done. Meanwhile we complain about the cost of food going up. We can't have it both ways. If farmers are to spend the insurmountable costs in fully cleaning up their act, we won't be able to complain about prices skyrocketing.

And at least farmers are productive - feeding us and providing export income. I think our biggest problem is number of people. If people just stopped to to think before they bred, and if we stopped inviting tourists in to wreck the environment we would achieve more than making life hard for farmers.

We should note the lessons we have learned in the pandemic - that we rely far to much on ephemeral businesses and not enough on core essentials. That we rely too much on other countries instead of working to produce our own. I think farmers get far too much criticism - they are trying, but many others don't put in anywhere near as much effort.
Riparian plantings pretty much only address surface run-off of effluent. The intensity of our agricultural (particularly dairying) farming is far too high for as the farmers need to continually upscale their operations in order to maintain economic viability. We are after all producing enough to feed around 40 million people so in effect we are suffering the environmental degradation to the advantage of our international customers. The situation has far less to do with visitors to our country than it does with our contribution to international food production. If our produce becomes more expensive, both to us and our export markets, it may better reflect the true cost of producing that food rather than ignoring the environmental costs we bare in doing so.

Our reliance on internationally imported goods is now being brought home to roost as oil prices rise and chemical fertilizer supplies decrease and rise in price. Those costs will of course be borne by consumers which in turn will contribute to rising inflation worldwide.

In our own lives we are largely self sufficient in fruit, veges, meat and electricity generation. We're not 'preppers' as such but are definitely sensitive to outlaying our hard earned money on someone else's production. Perhaps NZ would do well to move towards a similar strategy. We are after all blessed with a very benign climate and naturally fertile soils. Why waste our natural reources in a race to the bottom against the world's cheapest producers?
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#7
(15-06-2022, 11:49 AM)king1 Wrote: well on the subject of self sufficiency as a country, we could require that food producers in New Zealand be required to sell a percentage of their product into the New Zealand market, in a pitiful attempt to break this link to the international prices...

I mean at some point, when people are starving in NZ or can't afford healthy food, it seems stupid to be sending food off shore...

I imagine there are plenty of holes with this plan though...

Its messed up when we have to pay $18 for a block of cheese and yet its a fraction of the price in Australia or the UK for the same product.
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#8
(15-06-2022, 11:49 AM)king1 Wrote: well on the subject of self sufficiency as a country, we could require that food producers in New Zealand be required to sell a percentage of their product into the New Zealand market, in a pitiful attempt to break this link to the international prices...

Sounds like the Irish potato famine - while the Irish peasants who were producing this food didn't get to eat it, it was sent overseas for money. Always about the money...

Love the farmers saying if it wasn't for them making this food we would all starve. But if we all weren't eating their food, then they would have no market to grow and sell for. We are all in this together, it's about time the world realised a bigger picture.
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#9
(15-06-2022, 06:00 PM)Zurdo Wrote:
(15-06-2022, 11:49 AM)king1 Wrote: well on the subject of self sufficiency as a country, we could require that food producers in New Zealand be required to sell a percentage of their product into the New Zealand market, in a pitiful attempt to break this link to the international prices...

Sounds like the Irish potato famine - while the Irish peasants who were producing this food didn't get to eat it, it was sent overseas for money. Always about the money...

Love the farmers saying if it wasn't for them making this food we would all starve. But if we all weren't eating their food, then they would have no market to grow and sell for. We are all in this together, it's about time the world realised a bigger picture.
It would be nice to think that somehow, every country in the world could come to that realisation & behave accordingly.
I suspect that isn't all that likely - but then, perhaps I've just read too much sci fi. I hope so.

Because if we don't, then the world our grandkids & great grandkids will be living in doesn't bear thinking about.
in order to be old & wise, you must first be young & stupid. (I'm still working on that.)
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