So oat milk is better for the environment?

[C_T_Russell]

This has to be the biggest con I can think of.
A friend was over who left oat milk behind and I was reading the pack.
It claims on the pack that oats are "better for the environment" even though they provide no sources are there to back it up.
Whats worse, is it says how the packaging is made from "plants" and is biodegradable. OK, that sounds very well and good, but how many plants need to be grown on how much land and how much energy is used to produce enough biopolymers for this single use packaging?
How much fertilizer is needed for all of this?
How much energy is used for growing, harvesting and processing these oats, along with all the chemicals needed to extract the "milk" from the oats?
Then to top it all off, this product is produced in europe!
How much co2 is produced from shipping this damn thing over here from the other side of the world?!

This is NZ, we dont need this crap from the other side of the world when we can get good quality cows milk locally.
Crazy world we live in when you think about it!

Anyone would have to be an idiot to think that a cow eating grass is doing more damage than what was involved in making this product designed to appeal to vegans and ill informed environmentalists.

These products were originally intended for people with food allergies, but now it seems that its marketed as an ethical choice to save the planet or some BS.

[harm_less]

......
Then to top it all off, this product is produced in europe!
How much co2 is produced from shipping this damn thing over here from the other side of the world?!

This is NZ, we dont need this crap from the other side of the world when we can get good quality cows milk locally.
Crazy world we live in when you think about it!
.....

Careful what you criticise there chap. What you're stating there is the perfect condemnation of NZ's primary produce. We are as far from most of our international markets than any country can be so we'll always be behind the 8 ball when promoting our food exports to a world that is increasingly aware of the environmental impact of its consumption (i.e. food miles).

This is on top of the fact that we're producing way more than our population can consume so we are effectively bearing responsibility for the emissions of millions of consumers worldwide. If forcing those customers to pay more for their food to offset the ETS taxes paid by farmers to grow that food that seems to be a relatively fair trade off and if international sales demand for our produce reduces as a result then our farming inputs may reduce. Sounds like a workable solution either way, so long as the extra income in the former is focussed into environmental improvements.

[Zurdo]

Perhaps if they made milk produced in NZ at a reasonable price, like less than the same product in Aust or the UK...and even made it cheaper than oat milk imported from overseas. I don't see the farmers wanting to give the poor NZ public a bit of a helping hand.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

It's marketing. Cardboard is always made from  plants and the oats thing is just more product development to boost the return to the ag industry. The increased processing required is not good for the planet so we can pretty much add this to the list of greenwashed marketing campaigns that grows by the day.

Tricky human creatures, precious...

[Lilith7]

It's marketing. Cardboard is always made from  plants and the oats thing is just more product development to boost the return to the ag industry. The increased processing required is not good for the planet so we can pretty much add this to the list of greenwashed marketing campaigns that grows by the day.

Tricky human creatures, precious...

The world is a weird place. And humans are crazy.

Because apparently, its just far too difficult to work towards making our world a fairer one rather than maintaining the gap between rich & poor, & its far too difficult to stop polluting our planet to the same extent & clean up the mess we've made & far too difficult to in fact do anything at all, if it might bugger up our comfortable lifestyles.
We must make profits, & more profits, & yet more, & if that's at the disadvantage of some poor sods from some other country, well that's sad but can't be helped; perhaps they should have been born somewhere else, or go & live in another country.
Just not ours, 'we don't want those people coming here' do we.

I don't think there's any doubt - we're idiots. I wonder if Earth is the insane asylum for the universe...

[C_T_Russell]

......
Then to top it all off, this product is produced in europe!
How much co2 is produced from shipping this damn thing over here from the other side of the world?!

This is NZ, we dont need this crap from the other side of the world when we can get good quality cows milk locally.
Crazy world we live in when you think about it!
.....

Careful what you criticise there chap. What you're stating there is the perfect condemnation of NZ's primary produce. We are as far from most of our international markets than any country can be so we'll always be behind the 8 ball when promoting our food exports to a world that is increasingly aware of the environmental impact of its consumption (i.e. food miles).

This is on top of the fact that we're producing way more than our population can consume so we are effectively bearing responsibility for the emissions of millions of consumers worldwide. If forcing those customers to pay more for their food to offset the ETS taxes paid by farmers to grow that food that seems to be a relatively fair trade off and if international sales demand for our produce reduces as a result then our farming inputs may reduce. Sounds like a workable solution either way, so long as the extra income in the former is focussed into environmental improvements.

Good point, dont you see the hypocrisy?
All that oil being burned to export all our goods, but the govt will turn a blind eye to all of that and instead worry about the cows farts.

How about Jacinda buys some sailing ships? We used to import and export everything that way once upon a time before coal and oil were used.

[harm_less]

Careful what you criticise there chap. What you're stating there is the perfect condemnation of NZ's primary produce. We are as far from most of our international markets than any country can be so we'll always be behind the 8 ball when promoting our food exports to a world that is increasingly aware of the environmental impact of its consumption (i.e. food miles).

This is on top of the fact that we're producing way more than our population can consume so we are effectively bearing responsibility for the emissions of millions of consumers worldwide. If forcing those customers to pay more for their food to offset the ETS taxes paid by farmers to grow that food that seems to be a relatively fair trade off and if international sales demand for our produce reduces as a result then our farming inputs may reduce. Sounds like a workable solution either way, so long as the extra income in the former is focussed into environmental improvements.

Good point, dont you see the hypocrisy?
All that oil being burned to export all our goods, but the govt will turn a blind eye to all of that and instead worry about the cows farts.

How about Jacinda buys some sailing ships? We used to import and export everything that way once upon a time before coal and oil were used.

Jacinda is our prime minister. Her role, among other things, is to foster a beneficial social and business climate that is conducive to our country's businesses but not to invest in their operations. You seem to be confusing our country's governing with that of a totalitarian communist state.

[C_T_Russell]

Good point, dont you see the hypocrisy?
All that oil being burned to export all our goods, but the govt will turn a blind eye to all of that and instead worry about the cows farts.

How about Jacinda buys some sailing ships? We used to import and export everything that way once upon a time before coal and oil were used.

Jacinda is our prime minister. Her role, among other things, is to foster a beneficial social and business climate that is conducive to our country's businesses but not to invest in their operations. You seem to be confusing our country's governing with that of a totalitarian communist state.

If this govt really cared about climate change, they would have it in their interests to reduce imports.
We need to be self-reliant and produce all the goods we need here ourselves.
When it comes to food production, thats even more important, we loose our farms, then who will supply us the food?

[harm_less]

Jacinda is our prime minister. Her role, among other things, is to foster a beneficial social and business climate that is conducive to our country's businesses but not to invest in their operations. You seem to be confusing our country's governing with that of a totalitarian communist state.

If this govt really cared about climate change, they would have it in their interests to reduce imports.
We need to be self-reliant and produce all the goods we need here ourselves.
When it comes to food production, thats even more important, we loose our farms, then who will supply us the food?

Two holes in that last assumption. We currently produce sufficient food to feed ~40 million people, so 8 times our own requirements, so reducing the production of a few farms isn't going to impact our ability to survive, and those 'lost farms' aren't going anywhere, they will just change their land usage.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

As for reducing imports, great idea, except for the fact we are a group of islands reliant on the international markets and producers for our economic existance. Self sufficiency would come at a hell of a price to our standard of living.

Coffee or tea anyone? Want sugar with that?

[C_T_Russell]

If this govt really cared about climate change, they would have it in their interests to reduce imports.
We need to be self-reliant and produce all the goods we need here ourselves.
When it comes to food production, thats even more important, we loose our farms, then who will supply us the food?

Two holes in that last assumption. We currently produce sufficient food to feed ~40 million people, so 8 times our own requirements, so reducing the production of a few farms isn't going to impact our ability to survive, and those 'lost farms' aren't going anywhere, they will just change their land usage.

Dont count on it staying that way for long, I know a few farmers who already walked away long before all this crap was announced.
We will see more farms turned into pine forest, mark my words.

[king1]

Two holes in that last assumption. We currently produce sufficient food to feed ~40 million people, so 8 times our own requirements, so reducing the production of a few farms isn't going to impact our ability to survive, and those 'lost farms' aren't going anywhere, they will just change their land usage.

Dont count on it staying that way for long, I know a few farmers who already walked away long before all this crap was announced.
We will see more farms turned into pine forest, mark my words.

Not endorsing it but, IF it is more profitable to farm pine trees than food, or convert farmland to housing, instead of growing our own produce, I am wondering how that is any different to relying on imports of products in any other sector, say oil..  It is just market economics in a global economy and letting specific countries do what they do best...

It's not like we get the food any cheaper just because we grow it here

[harm_less]

Dont count on it staying that way for long, I know a few farmers who already walked away long before all this crap was announced.
We will see more farms turned into pine forest, mark my words.

Not endorsing it but, IF it is more profitable to farm pine trees than food, or convert farmland to housing, instead of growing our own produce, I am wondering how that is any different to relying on imports of products in any other sector, say oil..  It is just market economics in a global economy and letting specific countries do what they do best...

It's not like we get the food any cheaper just because we grow it here

In a similar vein during the time I was orcharding the national Avocado Industry Council identified the single biggest limiting factor to increasing orchard productivity was the rate of increase in land value. Too many avocado growers saw their orchard increasing in value (as potential subdivisional land in most cases) being a greater and surer income stream so why bother investing money and effort into coaxing more tonnage per hectare.

Money, either in the form of income or taxation, is the most effective incentive to drive change in a population.

[C_T_Russell]

Dont count on it staying that way for long, I know a few farmers who already walked away long before all this crap was announced.
We will see more farms turned into pine forest, mark my words.

Not endorsing it but, IF it is more profitable to farm pine trees than food, or convert farmland to housing, instead of growing our own produce, I am wondering how that is any different to relying on imports of products in any other sector, say oil..  It is just market economics in a global economy and letting specific countries do what they do best...

It's not like we get the food any cheaper just because we grow it here

Firstly we need to put a stop to mass immigration so that we dont have a housing issue, along with roading issues, etc.
We need to be self sufficient and as less reliant on imports as possible, especially food.
Too much focus on $$$, thats all people care about, the benefits to society are more important.

Secondly, we grow plenty of pines and export tonnes of timber, and yet have a supply shortage for the local population?
WTF?
Why do we export timber to get processed in China and then ship back the end products into NZ? Timber mills are suffering as a result.
Why do we have permanent pine forests that never will be cut down and replanted with a new batch of trees to suck up more carbon?
Its beyond belief. There is nothing sustainable about farming trees that never get cut down for profits.

Speaking of oil, we have our own oil supply here and we should use it. We use the gas supply, but they want to phase that out too!

No more marsden point oil refinery, now we have issues importing bitumen (is one of the reasons our roads are in such a poor state)

I could go on. This country is stuffed and its only going to get worse if we dont act.

[harm_less]

Not endorsing it but, IF it is more profitable to farm pine trees than food, or convert farmland to housing, instead of growing our own produce, I am wondering how that is any different to relying on imports of products in any other sector, say oil..  It is just market economics in a global economy and letting specific countries do what they do best...

It's not like we get the food any cheaper just because we grow it here

Firstly we need to put a stop to mass immigration so that we dont have a housing issue, along with roading issues, etc. Housing supply has more to do with misplaced investment strategies by the average NZer than immigrants. Furthermore we lack nurses, horticultural and agricultural employees which is being addressed by importing those with such skills.
We need to be self sufficient and as less reliant on imports as possible, especially food. So a national strategy akin to that of 'preppers'. Doesn't sound like a viable national solution.
Too much focus on $$$, thats all people care about, the benefits to society are more important. Unfortunately $$$ are what drives the worlds nations in these times so if you're promoting opting out of that see my preppers comment above.

Secondly, we grow plenty of pines and export tonnes of timber, and yet have a supply shortage for the local population? Agree. We are a geographically remote country and should be optimising our exports by way of value adding to them. That's $$$ driven strategy so at odds with your "Too much focus on $$$" so you are contesting your own reasoning.
WTF?
Why do we export timber to get processed in China and then ship back the end products into NZ? Timber mills are suffering as a result.
Why do we have permanent pine forests that never will be cut down and replanted with a new batch of trees to suck up more carbon? Agree. Though indigenous tree varieties are also catered for in the ETS directed land use revision directives but slow growth rates result in their being a poor second to pinus radiata.
Its beyond belief. There is nothing sustainable about farming trees that never get cut down for profits.

Speaking of oil, we have our own oil supply here and we should use it. We use the gas supply, but they want to phase that out too! Oil from NZ reservoirs is typically of a high wax content and of more value to sell offshore than to refine here. No point in devaluing this resource in an attempt as self sufficiency as that is false economics.

No more marsden point oil refinery, now we have issues importing bitumen (is one of the reasons our roads are in such a poor state). The poor state of our roads goes way deeper than that. The modern shortsighted tender process, reduced maintenance over the past decades, short term design strategies and the increase in maximum truck weights to 50T are all major factors.

I could go on. This country is stuffed and its only going to get worse if we dont act. There are many aspects in how our country is being run over the past few decades that need reviewing but we are in a better place economically and governmentally that many other OECD countries so we just need to capitalise on those advantages.

My 2c worth as above.