National to 'get tough' on youth crime.

[Lilith7]

Either they don't understand that it doesn't actually work - or they know but don't care as long as their primitive stance gets them votes. Which would be rather cynical, but then they're politicians.
'Young offenders military academies' fgs. Why would anyone think that teaching kids who've been in trouble the care & use of weapons is in any way a good idea?! Sheer idiocy.
 They seem to believe that its all down to a 'lack of discipline'

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/n...T4YO556KU/


"My message to young offenders is that under National, you will face [the] consequences for your actions.”  National would create Young Offender Military Academies where offenders aged 15 to 17 can be sent for up to 12 months
The Academies would “provide discipline, mentoring and intensive rehabilitation to make a decisive intervention in these young offenders’ lives. The Academies will be delivered in partnership with the Defence Force, alongside other providers”.

[C_T_Russell]

I think its a good idea, but its not like National implemented it last time they were in power.
Just because its a "military" style boot camp, doesnt mean they need to use or train with weapons, its more that they get given military discipline, it really works well in such cases overseas where other countries implement it.

[king1]

A relative of mine who shall remain nameless, turned into a bit of psychopath after his military training and did irreparable emotional harm to his children - i'm against it...

[harm_less]

On brand electioneering promises from National. Heard it many times before but National have never implemented any such scheme when they have been in power. It's all hot air.

The next stage in this scenario is usually that the Army state that they have no interest in running such training camps and don't want to be saddled with any such babysitting role.

[Lilith7]

Two things can be counted on whenever an election looms - the National party trumpeting on how they're going to 'get tough' - usually on crime but sometimes also on beneficiaries, & Winston hitting the racism button yet again. Anything to gain votes.

Sending kids to military camps has a bit of a history here too.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic...-boot-camp

"Troubled teens sent to government-run boot camps were abused and assaulted by military personnel tasked with turning their lives around.
Two military staff have been through formal disciplinary proceedings, one step below a full court martial, over treatment they meted out to teens on the camps.
It has drawn criticism that the boot camps are not working and should be scrapped."


National & ACT also have a history of being given large donations by wealthy rich listers, which isn't especially democratic.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/12830808...-democracy

"OPINION: In a democracy, government is supposed to be “of the people, by the people, for the people”, in Abraham Lincoln’s famous phrase. The recent flood of donations to National and ACT, though, suggests we risk getting a government of the Rich List, by the Rich List, for the Rich List.
National has reportedly, in just one month, raised $1.8m in large donations, and ACT $850,000. These are extraordinary sums, roughly ten times the normal amount for a non-election year. And what no-one seems to have noticed is that, in National’s case, all bar one of their 17 donors are on the Rich List."



While donations can be made to all parties, I think donations from anyone at all must be both limited & no secret donations at all permitted.

[Olive]

The Luxon speech writers are playing on voters' ignorance of what a "boot camp" would actually consist of. They are implying that it would be some kind of Outward Bound plus ankle bracelets, whereas in fact it would be brutal, expensive and basically adult level punishment for kids as young as 10. No recognition of rehab, education or redressing the imbalances of colonisation and inequality of opportunity.

[joe 90]

It has proved fairly successfull in uk & it has nothing to do with weapons or military training training . The boot camp boys have a choice of stay & do the time & their sentence for their crime is waived . The reoffending rate & those that walk out is very low . NZs catch & release system sure as hell aint working our young hoodlums are totally out of control & neither police or courts do bugger all about it , the hoodlums know they wont be prosecuted as adults . vigalantism will prevail shops & h home owners resort to using weapons to protect their property , i know several farmers who are prepared to ,theyve had enough of the theiving

[Lilith7]

The Luxon speech writers are playing on voters' ignorance of what a "boot camp" would actually consist of.  They are implying that it would be some kind of Outward Bound plus ankle bracelets, whereas in fact it would be brutal, expensive and basically adult level punishment for kids as young as 10.  No recognition of rehab, education or redressing the imbalances of colonisation and inequality of opportunity.

Absolutely agree. While it may be more expensive & take longer, education & rehab & fixing the situation which creates their behaviour works.

Its typical right wing bash bash bash 'remedy' though. Either they won't or can't see past the fact that it simply does not work, & not only doesn't work, but can do damage to people.
And really, Luxon advocating that children of 10 wear an ankle bracelet illustrates vividly just how out of touch both he & his party are.

They're interested only in advocating a quick fix for the situation & the more punitive, the better apparently. The long term doesn't interest them as long as they can appear tough & gain votes - they trot the same old nonsense whenever they want to get the voters stirred up.

If they were genuinely interested in ending & preventing such behaviour then they'd be looking at changing the things which lead to it. To the best of my knowledge, they never have.

---

It  has proved  fairly successfull in uk & it  has nothing to do with  weapons or  military  training training  .  The  boot camp  boys  have a choice    of  stay  &  do the time  & their  sentence for their crime is  waived  .  The  reoffending rate &  those that walk out      is  very  low      .  NZs  catch & release system sure as hell aint working our  young hoodlums are totally out of control  &  neither police or courts do    bugger all about  it  ,      the  hoodlums    know    they wont  be prosecuted  as adults  .  vigalantism will prevail    shops & h    home owners      resort to  using  weapons  to protect their  property  ,    i know several farmers  who  are  prepared  to ,theyve  had enough of  the theiving

The 'hoodlums' are children. 'Boot camps' do not work; they've been tried here before with much fanfare & - nothing.

The problem isn't 'lack of discipline'. The problem is a deeply unfair society.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Why not a residential school? Properly run it would do a hell of a lot more good than any military style boot camp. Instead of punishing these kids, educate them. Give them back hope and opportunity.

[yousnoozeyoulose]

And of course, the best and brightest, Sam Uffindell did a Facebook post about National getting tough on youth offending...

Unsurprisingly, it was overrun with comments which they've now deleted, and blocked any further ones.

---

Love a costed policy:

25 Young Offender Military Academy places per year, costed at $25 million, so National are advocating spending over $400k per child on something which has been shown to not work... and Labour are the ones with an addiction to spending?

[Lilith7]

Why not a residential school? Properly run it would do a hell of a lot more good than any military style boot camp. Instead of punishing these kids, educate them. Give them back hope and opportunity.

That could work if it was properly done, & education is definitely the answer to quite a lot of problems. 

But it isn't the quick fix most want, & nor does it contain the harsh elements some, especially conservatives, are keen to see. Perhaps we need more education on the causes, more understanding that sometimes, there is no quick fix.

---

And of course, the best and brightest, Sam Uffindell did a Facebook post about National getting tough on youth offending...

Unsurprisingly, it was overrun with comments which they've now deleted, and blocked any further ones.

---

Love a costed policy:

25 Young Offender Military Academy places per year, costed at $25 million, so National are advocating spending over $400k per child on something which has been shown to not work... and Labour are the ones with an addiction to spending?

Good point - maybe someone should ask them about costs of their scheme.

[Lilith7]

It doesn't seem to be going at all well in some quarters, including with a former National party minister, Chester Borrows.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/...ulxpFAtoKk


Youth workers have come out against it too.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/...gdiu201P-4


"Auckland youth development worker and advocate Aaron Hendry said he couldn't understand why National was rolling out a policy that had proven to be unsuccessful.
"If we look at the research, boot camps aren't effective in reducing recidivism because they often fail to address the reasons why young people are getting involved in crime in the first place.
"And in some cases, they can be more harmful, especially when they're not trauma-informed and not understanding what those young people are going through."

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Why not just give the kids the million each? Bet they'd do no more ram raids after that...

[Lilith7]

Why not just give the kids the million each? Bet they'd do no more ram raids after that...

Now there's a thought!

Do you suppose that, if we threatened to do a ram raid (which should be immensely interesting, on a bicycle & a scooter thingy!!) they'd give us a million each....,???