Waitangi day & Luxon...

[Lilith7]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/...ision.html




https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/p...L3AFJJTKA/




He appears to have put his foot in it, with his 'little experiment' comment - but claims that 'it wasn't meant to be belittling.' With any sort of luck, he'll continue in that vein & manage to lose them even more votes.

You'd expect a leader of an opposition party to know better than to make such a disparaging comment & then trying to backtrack & pretend that it 'wasn't belittling'...he surely cannot hope to claim that it was complimentary.
 Even a politician couldn't get away with that, so keep up the good work, Christopher Luxon!  

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Once again, we get shown the difference between a businessman and a potential prime minister.

The two roles are not interchangeable.

[zqwerty]

The idea that a country is little more than a big business is ludicrous.

The medical system is another good example that business models do not do a good job of running at least some types of human endeavor.

Actually factories that I have worked in have shown me that middle-management/management top down models don't work that well with factories as well.

The large super-computer type top-down structure is outdated, what is required is the intelligent peripherals model.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Good point about health systems. The US is the perfect illustration of that...

[Lilith7]

I think the idea that a country can be run as a business is run is relatively recent & arrived as a part of the Neo Liberalism which was inflicted on this & various other countries.

That was several decades ago now, so the realisation that its total bollocks really should have 'trickled down' by now...

[Lilith7]

It seems the CTers haven't learned anything; an elderly Kaumatua was removed after attempting to speak about the 'corrupt govt' which is very similar to claims made by those protesters who were camped outside parliament. Its a shame when an elderly person is drawn into something of that nature.


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/waitangi...KK5DMPZHE/


"The kaumātua later identified himself to the Herald as 82-year-old Paumea McKay, of Kaitaia.

He said he stood up in accordance with tikanga Māori to raise what he believed was the difference between law and statute.

McKay said he had served in the NZ Special Air Service for five years as a younger man.

The battle, he said, is not between Māori and Pākehā, but both against what he described as a “corrupt government”.

[zqwerty]

Yeah, thank roger douglas and richard prebble (lower case deliberate) for that wonderful idea and a lot more crap.

Both followers of american university "intellectuals" of the extreme right-wing persuasion who poisoned the NZ economy with their garbage.

[Lilith7]

Yeah, thank roger douglas and richard prebble (lower case deliberate) for that wonderful idea and a lot more crap.

Both followers of american university "intellectuals" of the extreme right-wing persuasion who poisoned the NZ economy with their garbage.

And he got a knighthood - forever rendering knighthoods valueless. 

Although on the other hand perhaps Roger Douglas should be thanked for a lesson in what happens when greed is unrestrained.

[zqwerty]

It's still going on, the businessmen have realized that shortage supplying the marketplace results in the highest prices for the least work and that is what we are seeing now.

The government is supposed to regulate to stop this corrupt behaviour, they need to start doing their job instead of the hands off the marketplace will regulate itself policy, how stupid do you have to be to believe that, they aren't that stupid, therefore what we have is corruption throughout the economy.

[king1]

It's still going on, the businessmen have realized that shortage supplying the marketplace results in the highest prices for the least work and that is what we are seeing now.

The government is supposed to regulate to stop this corrupt behaviour, they need to start doing their job instead of the hands off the marketplace will regulate itself policy, how stupid do you have to be to believe that, they aren't that stupid, therefore what we have is corruption throughout the economy.

It is not the government's role to tell companies what and how much they should provide, and where... 

But that can be normal practice for businesses to restrict supply in order to create more margin, the risk of doing so though is it attracts competitors to a profitable market, ultimately increasing market supply and competition - where barriers to entry aren't too high at least...

[zqwerty]

NZ not big enough populationwise, for economic theory to apply in a meaningful way, the function of the government is to govern and it's no longer doing that.

The idea that business is some sort of sacrosanct entity separate from the rest of us is the start of the problems.

[Lilith7]

NZ not big enough populationwise, for economic theory to apply in a meaningful way, the function of the government is to govern and it's no longer doing that.

The idea that business is some sort of sacrosanct entity separate from the rest of us is the start of the problems.

When things get to the stage where people are unable to afford basic needs in particular food, that is the time when govt needs to step in. & ensure change happens.

I think it wouldn't be a bad start to remove GST from fruit & veg, or even all food.

[Oldfellah]

Our next Prime Minister with the help of ACT will soon get the hang of things 

[harm_less]

NZ not big enough populationwise, for economic theory to apply in a meaningful way, the function of the government is to govern and it's no longer doing that.

The idea that business is some sort of sacrosanct entity separate from the rest of us is the start of the problems.

When things get to the stage where people are unable to afford basic needs in particular food, that is the time when govt needs to step in. & ensure change happens.

I think it wouldn't be a bad start to remove GST from fruit & veg, or even all food.

Excluding certain items presents a real minefield of which food products would qualify. Fast food/takeaways, alcoholic beverages, soft drinks, luxury food items, confectionery, all cooking ingredients, etc., etc. ? And what about specialist packaging required for many food stuffs?

And then how far back up the supply chain does the GST exclusion go? For example a produce grower or fisherman receives GST on their products which they can gain business liquidity from between their products' sale and the end of their GST period. Their expenses in growing or catching their products are GST inclusive but if the fruits of their labour aren't then some changes in business cashflow would be required. A similar situation would occur at whatever level of the food supply chain the GST exclusion occurred at.

[Olive]

"Excluding certain items presents a real minefield of which food products would qualify. Fast food/takeaways, alcoholic beverages, soft drinks, luxury food items, confectionery, all cooking ingredients, etc., etc. ? And what about specialist packaging required for many food stuffs?

And then how far back up the supply chain does the GST exclusion go? For example a produce grower or fisherman receives GST on their products which they can gain business liquidity from between their products' sale and the end of their GST period. Their expenses in growing or catching their products are GST inclusive but if the fruits of their labour aren't then some changes in business cashflow would be required. A similar situation would occur at whatever level of the food supply chain the GST exclusion occurred at."

Yes, it's the definitions that are a big problem. I hadn't thought about the packaging, but for people who eat a lot of processed foods the packaging is obviously a significant part of the cost.

As soon as a government tries to define what is food and what isn't, a whole new area of bureaucracy and ten years' worth of arguments open up. I know what I regard as food but my definition would exclude a whole lot of things like soft drinks, sweets and ultra-processed food, and it would be a foolhardy government that drew that line.

[harm_less]

Yes, it's the definitions that are a big problem.  I hadn't thought about the packaging, but for people who eat a lot of processed foods the packaging is obviously a significant part of the cost.

As soon as a government tries to define what is food and what isn't, a whole new area of bureaucracy and ten years' worth of arguments open up.  I know what I regard as food but my definition would exclude a whole lot of things like soft drinks, sweets and ultra-processed food, and it would be a foolhardy government that drew that line.

Australia created a real dog's breakfast with their GST system that resulted in examples like customers buying fresh fish (which was GST free) for the fish shop to cook for them. Also fresh chickens were GST free wheras (e.g. rotisserie) cooked ones has GST on them which is a disincentive to home cooking.

NZ's GST system has been praised for its simplicity in the past and IMO we are better to leave well alone.

[zqwerty]

Ah yes the hands off approach that is already working so well that basic foodstuffs are ridiculously expensive.

So to have a satisfied feeling that a simple approach is desirable and somehow satisfying to the mind the poor people just have to suffer.

The idea that "the marketplace" is somehow self-regulating is absolutely ridiculous and just gives already conniving greedy businessmen even more ways to obtain super-profits and generally manipulate the marketplace to suit themselves and get the consumer playing higher prices for less of services, quantities and quality.

[Lilith7]

Then the most sensible option is to remove GST from fresh fruit & veg, surely.

[king1]

problem with this I would almost guarantee is you will suddenly have a price rise from suppliers and the price will be back up towards where it was

a subsidy lowers the price, which in turn increases consumer demand - if suppliers can't easily supply more to meet the demand (logically this is the case otherwise prices would already be cheaper), then price goes up

[Olive]

Then the most sensible option is to remove GST from fresh fruit & veg, surely.

I don't think it's that simple, alas. For people who are really poor, with little in the way of kitchen equipment and/or cooking knowledge, frozen veges are healthy and more accessible than fresh veges. And so on.

I'm a supporter of The Aunties charity, and it has been chastening to learn how desperately needy some families can be, where frozen or tinned veges are verging on luxury.