River of freedom documentary trailer

[C_T_Russell]

This looks a good documentary on the parliament protests last year.
Hard to believe its been a whole 12 months already!

[zqwerty]

People who won't get vaccinated based on some idea of their personal freedom being infringed are a danger to us all.

[king1]

Looks to me like a bunch of anti vaxxy, conspiracy theorist nutters trying to remain relevant after the rest of the world has moved on...

I note none of the individual "team of independent filmmakers who volunteered their time" are prepared to put their full name to it... I wonder what that says about them?

[C_T_Russell]

People who won't get vaccinated based on some idea of their personal freedom being infringed are a danger to us all.

Did I kill anyone because I was unvaxxed?
I likely caught covid from someone who was vaxxed and I know I gave it to a friend who was fully vaxxed, so what is the point of the jolly jab?
We can now learn it was never tested for preventing transmission.
I know someone who was fully vaxxed, double boosted and caught covid twice, was at a dinner and got a call from the hosts saying that there was a covid case there, i happened to be sitting right next to that person at the dinner table and shook hands, etc. Didnt catch it.

In fact ive only caught covid the once and never caught it ever since, been to tons of public gatherings, etc and never ever caught it again.
I would say that natural immunity is better.
Is there any evidence the unvaxxed caused an overload to the heallth system?
How many unvaxxed people needed ICU treatment?
Serious questions that need serious answers.
So many basic human rights were stolen from many of us for the sake of many who refused medical treatment, doesnt even matter what reasons.
I was just apprehensive of being a guniea pig, I may have taken the jab after seeing that no one had any issues, but the fact is that there are significant side effects coming to the surface and im glad i didnt take it.

Anyone see the small print for all these vaccine adverts on the TV (such as the shingles vaccine?) this is a relatively safe vaccine, yet they have to put all these disclaimers on the TV, yet the official covid ads gave us no disclaimer and just told us its "safe and effective"
I feel sorry for all the guniea pigs who trusted this. I have a good friend who is suffering and they dont have any treatment for her. What are they supposed to do? There are many similar stories out there, but I know of at least two people personally who regret having the jab and suffer serious health effects.

---

Looks to me like a bunch of anti vaxxy, conspiracy theorist nutters trying to remain relevant after the rest of the world has moved on...

I note none of the individual "team of independent filmmakers who volunteered their time" are prepared to put their full name to it...  I wonder what that says about them?

The majority of these protesters were simply people who lost their jobs due to the mandates.
I couldnt care less what conspiracy theories they believe in or dont believe in, there is sadly a minority who believe in chemtrails or 5G, etc, but at the end of the day they are entitled to their beliefs.
I respect peoples beliefs no matter how nutty they are, its their choice.
I was in a high control cult and I know what its like.
Look at all the division its caused, you really have to ask whether it was worth it?
Only time will tell.
The covid cult is no different, just a bunch of sheep being told its safe and effective, "trust us" "we are the source of truth" exactly the same BS we were told in the JW cult, all critical thinking goes out the door, do your own research, look at both sides of the argument and dont just listen to the state controlled media.
Make an informed decision from all sources.

[king1]

The difference between the "covid cult" as you put it, and yours, is that a government has an elected responsibility to look after and do right by their citizens - the majority that is, not the fringe few who disagree. The real cults are simply power and greed...

[zqwerty]

!000's of people are catching/recatching Covid every day, there are different varieties now going through NZ and about 20 - 30 people are dying of Covid every week or so.

This page is an auto updating page and takes a while to update, have patience, the graphs etc are rather surprising considering that we are hearing very little about this in the everyday news:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/4508...in-numbers

[SueDonim]

People who won't get vaccinated based on some idea of their personal freedom being infringed are a danger to us all.

Did I kill anyone because I was unvaxxed?
I likely caught covid from someone who was vaxxed and I know I gave it to a friend who was fully vaxxed, so what is the point of the jolly jab?
We can now learn it was never tested for preventing transmission.
I know someone who was fully vaxxed, double boosted and caught covid twice, was at a dinner and got a call from the hosts saying that there was a covid case there, i happened to be sitting right next to that person at the dinner table and shook hands, etc. Didnt catch it.

In fact ive only caught covid the once and never caught it ever since, been to tons of public gatherings, etc and never ever caught it again.
I would say that natural immunity is better.
Is there any evidence the unvaxxed caused an overload to the heallth system?
How many unvaxxed people needed ICU treatment?
Serious questions that need serious answers.
So many basic human rights were stolen from many of us for the sake of many who refused medical treatment, doesnt even matter what reasons.
I was just apprehensive of being a guniea pig, I may have taken the jab after seeing that no one had any issues, but the fact is that there are significant side effects coming to the surface and im glad i didnt take it.

Anyone see the small print for all these vaccine adverts on the TV (such as the shingles vaccine?) this is a relatively safe vaccine, yet they have to put all these disclaimers on the TV, yet the official covid ads gave us no disclaimer and just told us its "safe and effective"
I feel sorry for all the guniea pigs who trusted this. I have a good friend who is suffering and they dont have any treatment for her. What are they supposed to do? There are many similar stories out there, but I know of at least two people personally who regret having the jab and suffer serious health effects.

---

Looks to me like a bunch of anti vaxxy, conspiracy theorist nutters trying to remain relevant after the rest of the world has moved on...

I note none of the individual "team of independent filmmakers who volunteered their time" are prepared to put their full name to it...  I wonder what that says about them?

The majority of these protesters were simply people who lost their jobs due to the mandates.
I couldnt care less what conspiracy theories they believe in or dont believe in, there is sadly a minority who believe in chemtrails or 5G, etc, but at the end of the day they are entitled to their beliefs.
I respect peoples beliefs no matter how nutty they are, its their choice.
I was in a high control cult and I know what its like.
Look at all the division its caused, you really have to ask whether it was worth it?
Only time will tell.
The covid cult is no different, just a bunch of sheep being told its safe and effective, "trust us" "we are the source of truth" exactly the same BS we were told in the JW cult, all critical thinking goes out the door, do your own research, look at both sides of the argument and dont just listen to the state controlled media.
Make an informed decision from all sources.

Here we go again! My comments in italics.

Did I kill anyone because I was unvaxxed?
You will never know that. If you went out where there were were people in the days before you got sick you may have passed it on to someone. That can still happen when we are vaxxed too, but is less likely.

I likely caught covid from someone who was vaxxed and I know I gave it to a friend who was fully vaxxed, so what is the point of the jolly jab?
You might not have caught if you were jabbed. Your friend who caught it from you might have been much sicker if they weren't jabbed.

We can now learn it was never tested for preventing transmission.
It was always known that it wouldn't totally prevent transmission. Total transmission prevention is not possible - you can have it on your hands and pass it to the next person even if you never actually "catch". The point of the jab is that if EVERYONE is vaccinated, there will be less transmission and less severe illness in the population as a whole. I really wish you could understand that.

I know someone who was fully vaxxed, double boosted and caught covid twice, was at a dinner and got a call from the hosts saying that there was a covid case there, i happened to be sitting right next to that person at the dinner table and shook hands, etc. Didnt catch it.
You were lucky. Or maybe you did catch it then and were asymptomatic. If I went out to dinner I would do a rat test beforehand and would expect everyone else there to do so too. That also doesn't prevent transmission rorm people incubating the disease, but goes a long way to reducing overall risk.

In fact ive only caught covid the once and never caught it ever since, been to tons of public gatherings, etc and never ever caught it again.
So you are lucky. Many people are not lucky. All those who died were extremely unlucky and maybe would not have died if EVERYONE had been vaccinated. And  for you, catching it once would have given you a degree of immunity for a while, although not as much as a vaccination. Or maybe you are a carrier.

I would say that natural immunity is better.
NO NO NO. It is well proven that "natural" immunity is far less effective than vaccine immunity. Some people even get covid twice within a few weeks.

Is there any evidence the unvaxxed caused an overload to the heallth system?
There is plenty of evidence that covid caused an overload in the health system. I also remember that our daily numbers used to include information about vaxxed v unvaxxed and it was clear that although plenty of hospitalisations were vaxxed, the number of unvaxxed was disproportionately high.So, it's clear that having the majority of people vaxxed reduced the overall health system stress, and also, if there were no unvaxxed people at all, there would have been a lot less virus kicking around.

How many unvaxxed people needed ICU treatment?
You could go back and look up the figures yourself. I don't feel a need to. I have spent many hours looking up data to properly answer your questions in the past and have learnt that it's a waste of time.

So many basic human rights were stolen from many of us for the sake of many who refused medical treatment, doesnt even matter what reasons.
The basic human rights that were stolen were from those who got vaccinated, wore masks and isolated themselves because it was the right and sensible thing to do, but had their lives turned upside down by an out of control virus that could have been squashed at the start if EVERYONE had done their bit. Those that lost jobs because of their "anti" stance were mostly health and teaching professionals who should know how to read and critically evaluate information. They showed that they didn't have these basic skills and were therefore incompetent in those jobs. Hopefully the next generation of both professions will have learned those basic skills and will do what is needed when the next virus hits us.

I was just apprehensive of being a guniea pig.
No one in the general population was a guinea pig. The guinea pigs for mRNA vaccine research were way back before this pandemic even started.

I may have taken the jab after seeing that no one had any issues, but the fact is that there are significant side effects coming to the surface and im glad i didnt take it.
Fear of the possible side effects is legitimate, but for any thinking person, fear of the virus is greater. That's why we all had the jab and put up with a few days of side effects, knowing that overall we and everyone around us would be safer from more severed illness.

Anyone see the small print for all these vaccine adverts on the TV (such as the shingles vaccine?) this is a relatively safe vaccine, yet they have to put all these disclaimers on the TV, yet the official covid ads gave us no disclaimer and just told us its "safe and effective".
I haven't watched ads for the shingles vaccine, but can imagine a number of reasons whey the advertising might be different. Looking up the relative expected side effects I can see that the shngles vaccine has plenty, and for some symptoms has a higher incidence and/or severity than the Pfizer covid vaccine.

I feel sorry for all the guniea pigs who trusted this. I have a good friend who is suffering and they dont have any treatment for her. What are they supposed to do? There are many similar stories out there, but I know of at least two people personally who regret having the jab and suffer serious health effects.
I don't know where and how you keep getting "stories", but they are just that. Unless they have been investigated and confirmed as being vaccine related you should assume that they are not, because they probably are coincidental.

The majority of these protesters were simply people who lost their jobs due to the mandates.
Those who didn't care enough to just do what is right. Those who didn't have the education or knowledge to critically analyse information. The ignorant and arrogant few who thought they knew more than people who spend decades of learning and commitment to professions and actually know how the human body works.

I couldnt care less what conspiracy theories they believe in or dont believe in, there is sadly a minority who believe in chemtrails or 5G, etc, but at the end of the day they are entitled to their beliefs.
People are entitled to beliefs, but sometimes their beliefs are so outrageous that they are downright embarrassing. Belief is just that - belief in something intangible. It can be respected when actual evidence is short or the concept is esoteric. When it comes to medical science, we use the concept of evidence. Knowledge can change over time as we learn more, but it's not something that lends itself to abstract "belief".

I respect peoples beliefs no matter how nutty they are, its their choice.
I was in a high control cult and I know what its like.
Look at all the division its caused, you really have to ask whether it was worth it?
Only time will tell.
The covid cult is no different, just a bunch of sheep being told its safe and effective, "trust us" "we are the source of truth" exactly the same BS we were told in the JW cult, all critical thinking goes out the door, do your own research, look at both sides of the argument and dont just listen to the state controlled media.
Make an informed decision from all sources.

The cults of religious-type belief are the example of how people get sucked in. People understanding and trusting science are not being sucked in to any cult. It is the CTs who are the cult, who believe the "stories" and seek out disinformation to justify a stance that is contrary to actual evidence, knowledge and common sense. Informed decision making comes from understanding reality, not pushing it aside in favour of something that simply doesn't make sense.

[zqwerty]

SueDonim, that's a great explanation and refutation, so well written.

[Praktica]

SueDonim - well said! I wouldn't have the patience...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Perhaps we should put bigger disclaimers on our posts, in case someone doesn't notice that warning bit under our nicks.

[Olive]

Thank you SueDonim for taking the time and trouble to explain yet again. In my opinion Conspiracy Theorist Russell is a troll who doesn't deserve any further attention, but in case someone else reads his/her sealioning drivel it is good to have your detailed rebuttals.

[king1]

Yep worthy of a rating or two I would think...

[harm_less]

For a more accurate portrayal of the protest at parliament last year this will serve the purpose I suspect. https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/in-dept...ling-point

I admit to not having watched this or the promo video in the OP but from what I've seen of the RNZ one it looks like it's worth watching.

ETA: Having now watched both videos it's interesting to see two completely perspectives of the same protest. In respect of the wanton violence and anarchistic behaviour being promoted and enacted by the protesters in the RNZ documentary I really struggle to understand how anyone can argue that this was a peaceful protest promoting public good. The lawlessness was intentionally planned by factions that have no place in NZ society. The police saw the mutation of the original protest into something far more sinister and dangerous and took the action needed.

[Serf407]

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in 5 years time, to see what in hindsight is correct or changed etc.

[C_T_Russell]

Here we go again! My comments in italics.
mine in bold

We can now learn it was never tested for preventing transmission.
It was always known that it wouldn't totally prevent transmission. Total transmission prevention is not possible - you can have it on your hands and pass it to the next person even if you never actually "catch". The point of the jab is that if EVERYONE is vaccinated, there will be less transmission and less severe illness in the population as a whole. I really wish you could understand that.
The whole point of a vaccine is to stop spread of a disease, not to "lessen" symptoms.


I would say that natural immunity is better.
NO NO NO. It is well proven that "natural" immunity is far less effective than vaccine immunity. Some people even get covid twice within a few weeks.

Natural immunity is better - fact! To say otherwise is an insult to your bodys natural defences!
This typically applies to any disease, remember that the vaccine only trains your body to recognize the spike protein.
If you catch covid, your immune system will get a footprint of all aspects of the virus, including the many other proteins the virus contains, along with the genetic material inside the virus.
Dont believe me?
There are many credible sources that either say its at least as good or better than the immunity the vaccine provides.

[b]I dont have to be jabbed every 3-6 months for any other disease, so why covid?
The whole population has now largely gained natural immunity so vaccines should not even be required, it will just be like any normal cold or flu strain in the community.
SEE BELOW TRUSTED SOURCE
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35380632/

&Quote
"Conclusions: Naturally acquired immunity confers stronger protection against infection and symptomatic disease caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 2-dose vaccine-indued immunity."[/b]


Is there any evidence the unvaxxed caused an overload to the heallth system?
There is plenty of evidence that covid caused an overload in the health system. I also remember that our daily numbers used to include information about vaxxed v unvaxxed and it was clear that although plenty of hospitalisations were vaxxed, the number of unvaxxed was disproportionately high.So, it's clear that having the majority of people vaxxed reduced the overall health system stress, and also, if there were no unvaxxed people at all, there would have been a lot less virus kicking around.

How many unvaxxed people needed ICU treatment?
You could go back and look up the figures yourself. I don't feel a need to. I have spent many hours looking up data to properly answer your questions in the past and have learnt that it's a waste of time.

Ive already done some digging and most serious cases were vaxxed people, but because so many were vaxxed, everyone will just argue thats the reason why so few unvaxxed died or ended up in ICU.
The truth hurts.

So many basic human rights were stolen from many of us for the sake of many who refused medical treatment, doesnt even matter what reasons.
The basic human rights that were stolen were from those who got vaccinated, wore masks and isolated themselves because it was the right and sensible thing to do, but had their lives turned upside down by an out of control virus that could have been squashed at the start if EVERYONE had done their bit. Those that lost jobs because of their "anti" stance were mostly health and teaching professionals who should know how to read and critically evaluate information. They showed that they didn't have these basic skills and were therefore incompetent in those jobs. Hopefully the next generation of both professions will have learned those basic skills and will do what is needed when the next virus hits us.

One of my GP's was totally against it and I first learned about the myocarditis from the nurse at my clinic, i thank her for alerting me about it, she said its easily treatable, which i know is BS, but at least she told me, I get the feeling she knew it was bad, but told me in the most professional way possible as not to sound "anti"
Total respect for telling me about the side effects, very few got informed before receiving it.

I was just apprehensive of being a guniea pig.
No one in the general population was a guinea pig. The guinea pigs for mRNA vaccine research were way back before this pandemic even started.

mRNA may have had human studies, but what vaccine was tested on humans before hand? Why did it take covid to introduce it? The issue with this virus is that it has a dangerous protein and the potential for the mRNA to enter cells in other parts of the body such as the heart was not well understood.

I may have taken the jab after seeing that no one had any issues, but the fact is that there are significant side effects coming to the surface and im glad i didnt take it.
Fear of the possible side effects is legitimate, but for any thinking person, fear of the virus is greater. That's why we all had the jab and put up with a few days of side effects, knowing that overall we and everyone around us would be safer from more severed illness.

Lots of things are said to be safe and then down the track after many years new discoverys are made. Here is an example, I had to have an MRI and receive contrast containing gadolinium, turns out this stuff stays in the brain, but they are still using it, I wish I had done more research into using it before accepting it. They initially believed your kidneys removed all of it, but now they learned some of it remains in your body. Who knows what implications this stuff has, but looks like the risk increases if you have multiple scans with the contrast injections.

Anyone see the small print for all these vaccine adverts on the TV (such as the shingles vaccine?) this is a relatively safe vaccine, yet they have to put all these disclaimers on the TV, yet the official covid ads gave us no disclaimer and just told us its "safe and effective".
I haven't watched ads for the shingles vaccine, but can imagine a number of reasons whey the advertising might be different. Looking up the relative expected side effects I can see that the shngles vaccine has plenty, and for some symptoms has a higher incidence and/or severity than the Pfizer covid vaccine.

I would have considered the shingles vaccine relatively safe, but obviously not going by what you are saying, this means that the mRNA vaccines must be even worse, we are not being told the whole truth.
I want to be proven wrong, but lets wait a few more years and see what SHTF.

I feel sorry for all the guniea pigs who trusted this. I have a good friend who is suffering and they dont have any treatment for her. What are they supposed to do? There are many similar stories out there, but I know of at least two people personally who regret having the jab and suffer serious health effects.
I don't know where and how you keep getting "stories", but they are just that. Unless they have been investigated and confirmed as being vaccine related you should assume that they are not, because they probably are coincidental.

The majority of these protesters were simply people who lost their jobs due to the mandates.
Those who didn't care enough to just do what is right. Those who didn't have the education or knowledge to critically analyse information. The ignorant and arrogant few who thought they knew more than people who spend decades of learning and commitment to professions and actually know how the human body works.

I couldnt care less what conspiracy theories they believe in or dont believe in, there is sadly a minority who believe in chemtrails or 5G, etc, but at the end of the day they are entitled to their beliefs.
People are entitled to beliefs, but sometimes their beliefs are so outrageous that they are downright embarrassing. Belief is just that - belief in something intangible. It can be respected when actual evidence is short or the concept is esoteric. When it comes to medical science, we use the concept of evidence. Knowledge can change over time as we learn more, but it's not something that lends itself to abstract "belief".

Science is based on observation, lets observe everyone who has had the vaccine over the next decade and take note of any changes vs the unvaxxed people as the control group.

I respect peoples beliefs no matter how nutty they are, its their choice.
I was in a high control cult and I know what its like.
Look at all the division its caused, you really have to ask whether it was worth it?
Only time will tell.
The covid cult is no different, just a bunch of sheep being told its safe and effective, "trust us" "we are the source of truth" exactly the same BS we were told in the JW cult, all critical thinking goes out the door, do your own research, look at both sides of the argument and dont just listen to the state controlled media.
Make an informed decision from all sources.

The cults of religious-type belief are the example of how people get sucked in. People understanding and trusting science are not being sucked in to any cult. It is the CTs who are the cult, who believe the "stories" and seek out disinformation to justify a stance that is contrary to actual evidence, knowledge and common sense. Informed decision making comes from understanding reality, not pushing it aside in favour of something that simply doesn't make sense.

Being told to trust a single source of information should raise alarm bells, we are all in a cult, you just dont know it. The soviets did it, China does it, just because we have much more freedom than such examples, it should be a reminder that no one is immune from such control.
Movies such as the matrix and 1984 send a message to humanity.
George Orwell was ahead of his time.

---

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in 5 years time, to see what in hindsight is correct or changed etc.

+10000%

[SueDonim]

Here we go again! My comments in italics.
mine in bold

We can now learn it was never tested for preventing transmission.
It was always known that it wouldn't totally prevent transmission. Total transmission prevention is not possible - you can have it on your hands and pass it to the next person even if you never actually "catch". The point of the jab is that if EVERYONE is vaccinated, there will be less transmission and less severe illness in the population as a whole. I really wish you could understand that.
The whole point of a vaccine is to stop spread of a disease, not to "lessen" symptoms.


I would say that natural immunity is better.
NO NO NO. It is well proven that "natural" immunity is far less effective than vaccine immunity. Some people even get covid twice within a few weeks.

Natural immunity is better - fact! To say otherwise is an insult to your bodys natural defences!
This typically applies to any disease, remember that the vaccine only trains your body to recognize the spike protein.
If you catch covid, your immune system will get a footprint of all aspects of the virus, including the many other proteins the virus contains, along with the genetic material inside the virus.
Dont believe me?
There are many credible sources that either say its at least as good or better than the immunity the vaccine provides.

[b]I dont have to be jabbed every 3-6 months for any other disease, so why covid?
The whole population has now largely gained natural immunity so vaccines should not even be required, it will just be like any normal cold or flu strain in the community.
SEE BELOW TRUSTED SOURCE
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35380632/

&Quote
"Conclusions: Naturally acquired immunity confers stronger protection against infection and symptomatic disease caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 2-dose vaccine-indued immunity."[/b]


Is there any evidence the unvaxxed caused an overload to the heallth system?
There is plenty of evidence that covid caused an overload in the health system. I also remember that our daily numbers used to include information about vaxxed v unvaxxed and it was clear that although plenty of hospitalisations were vaxxed, the number of unvaxxed was disproportionately high.So, it's clear that having the majority of people vaxxed reduced the overall health system stress, and also, if there were no unvaxxed people at all, there would have been a lot less virus kicking around.

How many unvaxxed people needed ICU treatment?
You could go back and look up the figures yourself. I don't feel a need to. I have spent many hours looking up data to properly answer your questions in the past and have learnt that it's a waste of time.

Ive already done some digging and most serious cases were vaxxed people, but because so many were vaxxed, everyone will just argue thats the reason why so few unvaxxed died or ended up in ICU.
The truth hurts.

So many basic human rights were stolen from many of us for the sake of many who refused medical treatment, doesnt even matter what reasons.
The basic human rights that were stolen were from those who got vaccinated, wore masks and isolated themselves because it was the right and sensible thing to do, but had their lives turned upside down by an out of control virus that could have been squashed at the start if EVERYONE had done their bit. Those that lost jobs because of their "anti" stance were mostly health and teaching professionals who should know how to read and critically evaluate information. They showed that they didn't have these basic skills and were therefore incompetent in those jobs. Hopefully the next generation of both professions will have learned those basic skills and will do what is needed when the next virus hits us.

One of my GP's was totally against it and I first learned about the myocarditis from the nurse at my clinic, i thank her for alerting me about it, she said its easily treatable, which i know is BS, but at least she told me, I get the feeling she knew it was bad, but told me in the most professional way possible as not to sound "anti"
Total respect for telling me about the side effects, very few got informed before receiving it.

I was just apprehensive of being a guniea pig.
No one in the general population was a guinea pig. The guinea pigs for mRNA vaccine research were way back before this pandemic even started.

mRNA may have had human studies, but what vaccine was tested on humans before hand? Why did it take covid to introduce it? The issue with this virus is that it has a dangerous protein and the potential for the mRNA to enter cells in other parts of the body such as the heart was not well understood.

I may have taken the jab after seeing that no one had any issues, but the fact is that there are significant side effects coming to the surface and im glad i didnt take it.
Fear of the possible side effects is legitimate, but for any thinking person, fear of the virus is greater. That's why we all had the jab and put up with a few days of side effects, knowing that overall we and everyone around us would be safer from more severed illness.

Lots of things are said to be safe and then down the track after many years new discoverys are made. Here is an example, I had to have an MRI and receive contrast containing gadolinium, turns out this stuff stays in the brain, but they are still using it, I wish I had done more research into using it before accepting it. They initially believed your kidneys removed all of it, but now they learned some of it remains in your body. Who knows what implications this stuff has, but looks like the risk increases if you have multiple scans with the contrast injections.

Anyone see the small print for all these vaccine adverts on the TV (such as the shingles vaccine?) this is a relatively safe vaccine, yet they have to put all these disclaimers on the TV, yet the official covid ads gave us no disclaimer and just told us its "safe and effective".
I haven't watched ads for the shingles vaccine, but can imagine a number of reasons whey the advertising might be different. Looking up the relative expected side effects I can see that the shngles vaccine has plenty, and for some symptoms has a higher incidence and/or severity than the Pfizer covid vaccine.

I would have considered the shingles vaccine relatively safe, but obviously not going by what you are saying, this means that the mRNA vaccines must be even worse, we are not being told the whole truth.
I want to be proven wrong, but lets wait a few more years and see what SHTF.

I feel sorry for all the guniea pigs who trusted this. I have a good friend who is suffering and they dont have any treatment for her. What are they supposed to do? There are many similar stories out there, but I know of at least two people personally who regret having the jab and suffer serious health effects.
I don't know where and how you keep getting "stories", but they are just that. Unless they have been investigated and confirmed as being vaccine related you should assume that they are not, because they probably are coincidental.

The majority of these protesters were simply people who lost their jobs due to the mandates.
Those who didn't care enough to just do what is right. Those who didn't have the education or knowledge to critically analyse information. The ignorant and arrogant few who thought they knew more than people who spend decades of learning and commitment to professions and actually know how the human body works.

I couldnt care less what conspiracy theories they believe in or dont believe in, there is sadly a minority who believe in chemtrails or 5G, etc, but at the end of the day they are entitled to their beliefs.
People are entitled to beliefs, but sometimes their beliefs are so outrageous that they are downright embarrassing. Belief is just that - belief in something intangible. It can be respected when actual evidence is short or the concept is esoteric. When it comes to medical science, we use the concept of evidence. Knowledge can change over time as we learn more, but it's not something that lends itself to abstract "belief".

Science is based on observation, lets observe everyone who has had the vaccine over the next decade and take note of any changes vs the unvaxxed people as the control group.

I respect peoples beliefs no matter how nutty they are, its their choice.
I was in a high control cult and I know what its like.
Look at all the division its caused, you really have to ask whether it was worth it?
Only time will tell.
The covid cult is no different, just a bunch of sheep being told its safe and effective, "trust us" "we are the source of truth" exactly the same BS we were told in the JW cult, all critical thinking goes out the door, do your own research, look at both sides of the argument and dont just listen to the state controlled media.
Make an informed decision from all sources.

The cults of religious-type belief are the example of how people get sucked in. People understanding and trusting science are not being sucked in to any cult. It is the CTs who are the cult, who believe the "stories" and seek out disinformation to justify a stance that is contrary to actual evidence, knowledge and common sense. Informed decision making comes from understanding reality, not pushing it aside in favour of something that simply doesn't make sense.

Being told to trust a single source of information should raise alarm bells, we are all in a cult, you just dont know it. The soviets did it, China does it, just because we have much more freedom than such examples, it should be a reminder that no one is immune from such control.
Movies such as the matrix and 1984 send a message to humanity.
George Orwell was ahead of his time.

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It will be interesting to revisit this thread in 5 years time, to see what in hindsight is correct or changed etc.

+10000%

I didn't mean to leave this so long - I have been busy with other things and not on the computer much lately.

At the end of the day you have the idea that this is all about "belief" in what we are "told". It seems to me that that is what you are doing. Some random website posts something and you believe it, but do not look for the evidence either for or against its message.

On the other hand I, and others, look for the evidence for anything that is important or might be questionable. In going to PubMed or Google Scholar we can find the source of the information, the level of evidence for the specific information, the credentials of the authors of the articles, the references for the information on which they have relied. Etc. There is no single source of information. Rather, there are ongoing trials and development done by hundreds of specialists in their fields, working together to gain the best understanding possible.

Your stories from the people you know would very (VERY) loosely compare to case studies which are low on the hierarchy of levels of evidence (eg https://libguides.winona.edu/ebptoolkit/Levels-Evidence). Even then, case studies in medicine are reported much more thoroughly than just "my friend said". When reported, all known aspects would be included, including any confounding factors.

You have told us several times that you have come from a JW background and consider it a cult yet you still believe things you see without question. Those of us who have taken an interest in covid and vaccination have looked for and at evidence. We may not always understand all of the medicine and science involved, and we know that things change over time as more is learned and understood, but at the end of the day we also respect the advice of those who do have the necessary depth of understanding of the complexity of it all. It is far safer to accept recommendations from people who do really know than it is to be arrogant and contrary in following people who really know nothing.

It will be very interesting to see what happens in the next 5-10 years. Just as it was alarming to see how unprepared we were for this virus when we had the warning from the first SARS virus in 2002 and MERS in 2012. The medical professionals continued work on virology, immunology and vaccinology to be as ready as possible for the "next" one but unfortunately governments weren't as prepared as they might have been. And people who should have just done what is right for the right reason, fought against basic common sense and the result was that we had a world wide pandemic instead of getting this virus squashed before it took hold.

[C_T_Russell]

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+10000%

I didn't mean to leave this so long - I have been busy with other things and not on the computer much lately.

At the end of the day you have the idea that this is all about "belief" in what we are "told". It seems to me that that is what you are doing. Some random website posts something and you believe it, but do not look for the evidence either for or against its message.

On the other hand I, and others, look for the evidence for anything that is important or might be questionable. In going to PubMed or Google Scholar we can find the source of the information, the level of evidence for the specific information, the credentials of the authors of the articles, the references for the information on which they have relied. Etc. There is no single source of information. Rather, there are ongoing trials and development done by hundreds of specialists in their fields, working together to gain the best understanding possible.

Your stories from the people you know would very (VERY) loosely compare to case studies which are low on the hierarchy of levels of evidence (eg https://libguides.winona.edu/ebptoolkit/Levels-Evidence). Even then, case studies in medicine are reported much more thoroughly than just "my friend said". When reported, all known aspects would be included, including any confounding factors.

You have told us several times that you have come from a JW background and consider it a cult yet you still believe things you see without question. Those of us who have taken an interest in covid and vaccination have looked for and at evidence. We may not always understand all of the medicine and science involved, and we know that things change over time as more is learned and understood, but at the end of the day we also respect the advice of those who do have the necessary depth of understanding of the complexity of it all. It is far safer to accept recommendations from people who do really know than it is to be arrogant and contrary in following people who really know nothing.

It will be very interesting to see what happens in the next 5-10 years. Just as it was alarming to see how unprepared we were for this virus when we had the warning from the first SARS virus in 2002 and MERS in 2012. The medical professionals continued work on virology, immunology and vaccinology to be as ready as possible for the "next" one but unfortunately governments weren't as prepared as they might have been. And people who should have just done what is right for the right reason, fought against basic common sense and the result was that we had a world wide pandemic instead of getting this virus squashed before it took hold.

Well I wa referring to what the official source was,  i.e, whatever Bloomfield and the likes of baker were telling us.
There are many sources out there, and you need to look at everything to make an informed decision.
When you have professionals with the likes of Robert Malone who helped develop this technology and later speak out about the risks, I think its worth listening to.
But because he speaks against the narrative, we are not allowed to listen to him it seems.
Now it's come out  that Moderna didn't even have a sample of the virus to work with.
Lots of us were saying this from the start and now been proven right all along.

[Olive]

Robert Malone is a conspiracy theorist who is making false claims and spreading misinformation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/03/techn...lone-covid.

www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/24/robert-malone-vaccine-misinformation-rogan-mandates/

https://healthfeedback.org/authors/robert-malone/

[Praktica]

Well I wa referring to what the official source was,  i.e, whatever Bloomfield and the likes of baker were telling us.
There are many sources out there, and you need to look at everything to make an informed decision.
When you have professionals with the likes of Robert Malone who helped develop this technology and later speak out about the risks, I think its worth listening to.
But because he speaks against the narrative, we are not allowed to listen to him it seems.
Now it's come out  that Moderna didn't even have a sample of the virus to work with.
Lots of us were saying this from the start and now been proven right all along.

So - all sources have the same value? They are all equally informed? That looks like a definition of naivety.