Sack Marama Davidson!

[C_T_Russell]

For her stupid remarks about "White Cis Men" being the cause of violence.
This weekend, Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence Marama Davidson proudly declared on camera: “I am the prevention [of] violence Minister, and I know who causes violence in the world, and it’s white cis men.”
As alarming as it is to once again be confronted by how easily and happily our Government differentiates us based on skin colour, it is also an example of how this kind of racialised politics doesn't help anyone.
It certainly doesn't help all of the victims of family violence that was not caused by a white man. Does the minister not consider them in her work? New Zealand has some of the worst statistics for family violence in the OECD!
Her abhorrent statement is actually receiving endorsement from groups and individuals who clearly have a warped and inaccurate picture of the world and no understanding of how family violence dominates our violent crime statistics.

This person is not material for her position in power.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/28/white...arliament/

[king1]

probably a bit of a careless thing to say, for sure.

it is mostly all males that do the offending, although from the stats it looks like its a bit of an even race between maori and pakeha

https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/publ...mographics

on the demographics tab...

[Kenj]

It is fairly even in %.... 47% of problems are caused by Maori 53% by the rest.

However, look at the % population and you will see that ,with 17% of the population Maorii are, once again, over represented.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

She's bang on in my life experience. Why should she apologise when she is calling out men for a problem they have? When predominantly women are the victims?

Seems like a bit of gaslighting to avoid the issue to me...

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It is fairly even in %.... 47% of problems are caused by Maori 53% by the rest.

However, look at the % population and you will see that ,with 17% of the population Maorii are, once again, over represented.

And why is that do you reckon?

[alpha111]

Please excuse my ignorance but some people are using a contraction 'CT' in their posts. Does this mean Cis-Trans?

[Olive]

CT is usually an abbreviation of Conspiracy Theorist.

[king1]

Please excuse my ignorance but some people are using a contraction 'CT' in their posts. Does this mean Cis-Trans?

whenever I use CT it is either CT ie shortened version of the user name of the OP  C_T_Russell, or CT for conspiracy theorist.  Context should make it obvious.

Up until a day ago I had no idea about Cis-Trans, so def not that from my POV

[Praktica]

Who mentioned free speech? Obviously, it's only for CTers and white cis males...

[Lilith7]

Look around the world; its largely men who are responsible for most murders & violence of all kinds; she's right & while that truth is uncomfortable no one should be sacked for speaking the truth.

The right are having a wonderful time trying to demonise her for her comments, despite her having explained the context - she'd just been hit by a motorcyclist at the time the loonytunes 'reporter' from Counterspin turned up & she has clarified her comment at the time & apologised to the PM.

That is sufficient.
We really do need to tackle the problem of violence, whoever is responsible & preferably soon, find ways of preventing it.

[Wainuiguy]

Look around the world; its largely men who are responsible for most murders & violence of all kinds; she's right & while that truth is uncomfortable no one should be sacked for speaking the truth.

The right are having a wonderful time trying to demonise her for her comments, despite her having explained the context - she'd just been hit by a motorcyclist at the time the loonytunes 'reporter' from Counterspin turned up & she has clarified her comment at the time & apologised to the PM.

That is sufficient.
We really do need to tackle the problem of violence, whoever is responsible & preferably soon, find ways of preventing it.

When people are in a heightened state of emotion (or drunk) I tend to see they say exactly what they are thinking as their filter has been removed.  I would suggest that what she said was her honest (and very ugly) belief.  She can dress it up all she wants later but she simply showed who she was.

And let's not get past that it's wasn't men she was talking about - it was white cis-men.  And wasn't some of the violence but all.

So I guess we now know her true feelings to her co-leader.

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And let's also not forget where she was coming from. A protest where those protesting violently silenced those wishing to speak. Even when it was clear that the talk was being called off they continued to be violent.

---

She's bang on in my life experience. Why should she apologise when she is calling out men for a problem they have? When predominantly women are the victims?

Seems like a bit of gaslighting to avoid the issue to me...

---

It is fairly even in %.... 47% of problems are caused by Maori 53% by the rest.

However, look at the % population and you will see that ,with 17% of the population Maorii are, once again, over represented.

And why is that do you reckon?

So if women are often the victims you must have been dismayed by the violence shown to several women during that rally. 

As for the reason more Maori are represented in stats?  You are thinking "systemic racism"  I am thinking they just break the law and get caught more.

[Kenj]

She's bang on in my life experience. Why should she apologise when she is calling out men for a problem they have? When predominantly women are the victims?

Seems like a bit of gaslighting to avoid the issue to me...

---

It is fairly even in %.... 47% of problems are caused by Maori 53% by the rest.

However, look at the % population and you will see that ,with 17% of the population Maorii are, once again, over represented.

And why is that do you reckon?

I don't speak lightly on this matter. I did 10 years with the CAB 1980's-90's and found that women who had "had the bash" (as most of them called it) mostly went back thinking their man would change only to be back to us asking about non-molestation orders etc. I helped, or tried to help quite a lot of them during these years and never found one that wouldn't speak to me because I was a bloke. The universal thing of help being the number one thing of importance.

Then after retiring is 2008, I drove a van for a teen parent school (11 yearsof it) and had many girls who had left home to live with the father of their child, were getting "the bash" Same old, same old....... et al. "He doesn't mean it. He loves me, but we have problems with money and he gets all upset when he drinks. He has promised me he won't bash me again!"

Facts are facts and that is why I said about the percentages of male violence to women. Maori men are over represented in these statistics. European descent women, perhaps keep it more hidden away. I don't know. 

I do not exaggerate any of this. As I said, 21 years of this shit. I feel embarrassed to be a male at times.

.... then, my granddaughter got into a 12 months violent relationship which she finally got away from a couple of months ago. F*ck!!!

[king1]

Look around the world; its largely men who are responsible for most murders & violence of all kinds; she's right & while that truth is uncomfortable no one should be sacked for speaking the truth.

The right are having a wonderful time trying to demonise her for her comments, despite her having explained the context - she'd just been hit by a motorcyclist at the time the loonytunes 'reporter' from Counterspin turned up & she has clarified her comment at the time & apologised to the PM.

That is sufficient.
We really do need to tackle the problem of violence, whoever is responsible & preferably soon, find ways of preventing it.

Yeah I suspect the white cis-male comment came out in the 'heightened state of emotion' simply because she was being targeted by one in the form of Mr/Ms Loonytunes.  When you're staring one in the face who is presumably harassing you in some form or another, it's not a big leap... 

Under the circumstances I don't see why politicians should be judged any differently from the rest of the population...

[Wainuiguy]

Look around the world; its largely men who are responsible for most murders & violence of all kinds; she's right & while that truth is uncomfortable no one should be sacked for speaking the truth.

The right are having a wonderful time trying to demonise her for her comments, despite her having explained the context - she'd just been hit by a motorcyclist at the time the loonytunes 'reporter' from Counterspin turned up & she has clarified her comment at the time & apologised to the PM.

That is sufficient.
We really do need to tackle the problem of violence, whoever is responsible & preferably soon, find ways of preventing it.

Yeah I suspect the white cis-male comment came out in the 'heightened state of emotion' simply because she was being targeted by one in the form of Mr/Ms Loonytunes.  When you're staring one in the face who is presumably harassing you in some form or another, it's not a big leap... 

Under the circumstances I don't see why politicians should be judged any differently from the rest of the population...

As I said those in that situation tend to tell what they actually feel.  The questioning by the Counterspin person is a red herring because she never answered the question put to her - she just went off on what was quite a rant.

[king1]

Yeah I suspect the white cis-male comment came out in the 'heightened state of emotion' simply because she was being targeted by one in the form of Mr/Ms Loonytunes.  When you're staring one in the face who is presumably harassing you in some form or another, it's not a big leap... 

Under the circumstances I don't see why politicians should be judged any differently from the rest of the population...

As I said those in that situation tend to tell what they actually feel.  The questioning by the Counterspin person is a red herring because she never answered the question put to her - she just went off on what was quite a rant.

I would put no more stock in the truthiness of a statement from highly emotive states or drunkenness than I would normally.   Sometimes people just say shit in the highly emotional or drunken states just to hurt the other person...  

what you're suggesting 'could' be the case if she is speaking the truth, but you and I can never know that so it is unfair to make blanket assumptions.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Fact checking Marama Davidson's statement - Stuff article says it all really.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/1316329...-statement

[alpha111]

A female transsexual murdered three children ages 8 and 9 and three adults at a Nashville Covenant School: children Evelyn Dieckhaus, Hallie Scruggs, and William Kinney and adults Cynthia Peak, 61; Katherine Koonce, 60; and Mike Hill, 61.
In the immediate aftermath of the shooting, there were mixed reports and a great deal of speculation about the identity and sex of the shooter.
The confusion was ostensibly put to bed when the Metropolitan Nashville Police Department issued an update at 1:53 p.m. on March 27, revealing the shooter had been identified as a 28-year-old Nashville woman.
The Media soon discovered that the female child-killer used "he/him" pronouns on her LinkedIn page and wrote her preferred male name on the stock of the rifle she used in the shooting.
The New York Times issued an update several hours after the rampage, effectively apologizing for having dared to identify the school shooter by her biological sex. And so they should!

[Lilith7]

The right are very keen to disparage the govt at present, (& anything will do since there's an election not far off) which goes some way to explain their sudden horror at violence against women being said to be perpetrated by mainly heterosexual men.


If kids grow up seeing their Mum's partner being violent towards her then eventually that becomes normal & can become seen as a 'normal' way of expressing love. And it can be extremely difficult to leave such a situation.

We perhaps need to start at the primary school & high school level by teaching kids empathy, which would be a step in the right direction.

[king1]

The right are very keen to disparage the govt at present, (& anything will do since there's an election not far off) which goes some way to explain their sudden horror at violence against women being said to be perpetrated by mainly heterosexual men.


If kids grow up seeing their Mum's partner being violent towards her then eventually that becomes normal & can become seen as a 'normal' way of expressing love. And it can be extremely difficult to leave such a situation.

We perhaps need to start at the primary school & high school level by teaching kids empathy, which would be a step in the right direction.

the problem with that is those that desperately need that kind of education probably aren't attending school for various reasons...

[Kenj]

The right are very keen to disparage the govt at present, (& anything will do since there's an election not far off) which goes some way to explain their sudden horror at violence against women being said to be perpetrated by mainly heterosexual men.


If kids grow up seeing their Mum's partner being violent towards her then eventually that becomes normal & can become seen as a 'normal' way of expressing love. And it can be extremely difficult to leave such a situation.

We perhaps need to start at the primary school & high school level by teaching kids empathy, which would be a step in the right direction.

Youv'e got it right. it becomes the norm in children's lives. As I said in my previous post about the problem, the littlies got affected and started having behavioural problems. These are 2-year-olds who shouldn't know anything but love and care from Mum and Dad. Some resolved playground disputes by attacking their friends/playmates. Thats all they know.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

So, then are we agreed that Marama was correct in her somewhat emotional statement  and that she should be neither forced into a false apology nor fired?

I do wonder though which bit of it caused the most fuss, the cis bit, the white bit, or the males bit? Maybe she should've added over the age of ten, and perhaps even wearing suits...