ACT, National could govern...the stuff of nightmares

[Lilith7]

Both the Nats & Labour are down in the polls  - not that polls always count for much, & this one is from the right wing Taxpayers union - but sadly ACT has benefited from it.

That really would be just about the very last thing we need now; the ignorance of ACT is mind bogglingly stunning, their leader having said previously he'd like to lower benefits so that he clearly has no clue just how difficult things are already for those on benefits. That, or he knows & doesn't care.
And Luxon doesn't seem to be going down well with voters.


https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/late...-form-govt



"The latest political poll has National nudging past Labour and able to form a government with the Act Party.
But voters still don’t appear to be resonating with National leader Christopher Luxon who is at his lowest favourability rating since becoming leader in November 2021.
The latest Taxpayers’ Union-Curia poll was released today, revealing Labour had dropped just over three points in the past month to 33.8% of the party vote, falling behind National which dropped by just under one point to 35.6%.




The big winner was Act, bumping up 3.2 points to 12.7%. The results would mean National at 46 seats and Act on 16 could form a government with 62 out of the 120 seats.
The Green Party was relatively stable at 7% (up 0.3 points since April). Te Pāti Māori was on 3.7%, up 0.8 points.





Those results for Parliament’s current left-wing parties would see Labour get 44 seats, the Green Party nine seats and Te Pāti Māori five seats.


While the centre-right would be in a position to form a government, Prime Minister and Labour leader Chris Hipkins continues to prove far more popular than National’s Luxon.

Hipkins’ net favourability score was positive 22% - six points lower than last month and down 11 points on his March peak of positive 33%.

Luxon meanwhile was at negative 7%, meaning more people gave him an unfavourable rating than favourable."

[king1]

I wonder if this is why Luxon suddenly announced he won't work with the Maori party...

[Wainuiguy]

The real nightmare - a Labour/Green/Maori party coalition.

[king1]

The real nightmare - a Labour/Green/Maori party coalition.

probably agree with that one as well...  Too many agendas at play, can't imagine any consensus being formed

[Lilith7]

I wonder if this is why Luxon suddenly announced he won't work with the Maori party...

It may be - he just doesn't seem to resonate with many people somehow but its far too late to change leaders again at this point, surely. I saw an interview he did with Moana, & he was not keen on Maori having a slightly bigger say in anything much. She pulled him up on a couple of things he was wrong about, too.

[nzoomed]

The real nightmare - a Labour/Green/Maori party coalition.

probably agree with that one as well...  Too many agendas at play, can't imagine any consensus being formed

Yes I agree with this too, this is the opposite to what John Key did where he actively involved the Maori party.
I bet Luxon will stay close to his chest about NZ first, He might need them to form a govt, but ACT say they wont work with NZF, but does that necessarily mean National cant?
IDK, MMP can get messy fast.
I agree its far more stable if less parties need to work together.

[harm_less]

The real nightmare - a Labour/Green/Maori party coalition.

probably agree with that one as well...  Too many agendas at play, can't imagine any consensus being formed

This election is going to have plenty of influence from environmental and Treaty factors so the Greens and Maori parties will feature in that respect and to disregard them isn't a wise move IMO. Sure the Labour/Green/Maori coalition won't be easy bedfellows but that is the combination that may just be the secret to winning this year's election.

[C_T_Russell]

The real nightmare - a Labour/Green/Maori party coalition.

Most definitely, another 3rd term of this BS with a radical left govt will be devastating to this country.
The greens have to go, and Luxon was smart to rule out working with Maori party.
Hopefully we get a good amount of support with Act this time round, they are the only party in govt that actually is putting sensible policies on the table.

[zqwerty]

Bitter and twisted old men running the country, never again. luxton et al is a throwback to the past.

BRAVO to Chris Hipkins and Jacinda Ardern clones, LABOUR FOREVER.

Hopefully the younger generations are taking over the running of this insular, cultural backwater of a country.

[Olive]

Bitter and twisted old men running the country, never again.  luxton et al is a throwback to the past.

BRAVO to Chris Hipkins and Jacinda Ardern clones, LABOUR FOREVER.

Hopefully the younger generations are taking over the running of this insular, cultural backwater of a country.

I agree.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Why do the Greens have to go?

What makes this government 'radical left'?

Silly sausage.

[king1]

Why do the Greens have to go?

What makes this government 'radical left'?

Silly sausage.

you might as well add, why are there only two genders?

[Lilith7]

The real nightmare - a Labour/Green/Maori party coalition.

Most definitely, another 3rd term of this BS with a radical left govt will be devastating to this country.
The greens have to go, and Luxon was smart to rule out working with Maori party.
Hopefully we get a good amount of support with Act this time round, they are the only party in govt that actually is putting sensible policies on the table.

"Radical left' - what nonsense. 

Look at the mess we've made of our planet; we need the Greens involved in govt to hopefully restrain those idiots who prefer to ignore it & even add to the mess, as long as they can make a profit from it.

Neo Liberals simply do not seem to care; or perhaps they lack the capacity to comprehend the situation. 

[SueDonim]

The greens have their hearts in the right place but on the whole are misguided and impractical. Act has a lot of commonsense and needs to be in the mix somewhere. Seymour is getting better at his role and saying what needs to be said. We need National for some business sense and it wouldn't surprise me if we end up with Nicola Willis instead of Luxon. What we don't need is the Labour wastage we have now had for far too long. There are people who need and deserve benefits to survive, but there are far too many whose laziness and greed is just taking money away from where it's really needed - health, education and roads for all for starters.

[Lilith7]

The greens have their hearts in the right place but on the whole are misguided and impractical. Act has a lot of commonsense and needs to be in the mix somewhere. Seymour is getting better at his role and saying what needs to be said. We need National for some business sense and it wouldn't surprise me if we end up with Nicola Willis instead of Luxon. What we don't need is the Labour wastage we have now had for far too long. There are people who need and deserve benefits to survive, but there are far too many whose laziness and greed is just taking money away from where it's really needed - health, education and roads for all for starters.

Given the state of our planet I think its rather more than 'having their hearts in the right place' & perhaps more a matter of our survival.

National may well have 'business sense' but it lacks understanding of the day to day struggle people are now coping with & doesn't show even the tiniest inclination to attempt understanding.
A country is not a business & should be well run for the benefit of us all rather than just a small group of the well off.



I see the usual myth is still alive & well - beneficiaries are lazy layabouts who don't want to work'.

Greed is certainly a very damaging  factor; Neo Liberalism is based on it, to the detriment of this & virtually every country which foolishly adopted it.

[SueDonim]

The greens have their hearts in the right place but on the whole are misguided and impractical. Act has a lot of commonsense and needs to be in the mix somewhere. Seymour is getting better at his role and saying what needs to be said. We need National for some business sense and it wouldn't surprise me if we end up with Nicola Willis instead of Luxon. What we don't need is the Labour wastage we have now had for far too long. There are people who need and deserve benefits to survive, but there are far too many whose laziness and greed is just taking money away from where it's really needed - health, education and roads for all for starters.

Given the state of our planet I think its rather more than 'having their hearts in the right place' & perhaps more a matter of our survival.

National may well have 'business sense' but it lacks understanding of the day to day struggle people are now coping with & doesn't show even the tiniest inclination to attempt understanding.
A country is not a business & should be well run for the benefit of us all rather than just a small group of the well off.



I see the usual myth is still alive & well - beneficiaries are lazy layabouts who don't want to work'.

Greed is certainly a very damaging  factor; Neo Liberalism is based on it, to the detriment of this & virtually every country which foolishly adopted it.

I said "There are people who need and deserve benefits to survive ..... ". And the fact is that there ARE far too many whose laziness and greed is just taking money away from where it's really needed

Not all beneficiaries are lazy layabouts by any means, but there are plenty who are just taking all they can get and giving nothing back to society. Meanwhile those of us who do pay the taxes that are used to pay for it all are not seeing the societal benefits that we should. If money was freed up across the board within fairer systems where everyone gives what they should and doesn't try to rip everyone off, maybe we could then afford the levels of health etc that we theoretically have paid for. You expect the hard working "rich" - whoever they actually are - to fork out more tax, just so it can be wasted away and not used for the best benefit of society as a whole.

[king1]

Given the state of our planet I think its rather more than 'having their hearts in the right place' & perhaps more a matter of our survival.

National may well have 'business sense' but it lacks understanding of the day to day struggle people are now coping with & doesn't show even the tiniest inclination to attempt understanding.
A country is not a business & should be well run for the benefit of us all rather than just a small group of the well off.



I see the usual myth is still alive & well - beneficiaries are lazy layabouts who don't want to work'.

Greed is certainly a very damaging  factor; Neo Liberalism is based on it, to the detriment of this & virtually every country which foolishly adopted it.

I said "There are people who need and deserve benefits to survive ..... ". And the fact is that there ARE far too many whose laziness and greed is just taking money away from where it's really needed

Not all beneficiaries are lazy layabouts by any means, but there are plenty who are just taking all they can get and giving nothing back to society. Meanwhile those of us who do pay the taxes that are used to pay for it all are not seeing the societal benefits that we should. If money was freed up across the board within fairer systems where everyone gives what they should and doesn't try to rip everyone off, maybe we could then afford the levels of health etc that we theoretically have paid for. You expect the hard working "rich" - whoever they actually are - to fork out more tax, just so it can be wasted away and not used for the best benefit of society as a whole.

Seriously, how far do you think the money will really go,  paid to "the far too many whose laziness and greed is just taking money away from where it's really needed" ?  

Even if ALL the unemployed in NZ (currently around 102,000) are the lazy yobs you make them out to be, that is probably only 30-40 million...    Not really sure that will be enough to "afford the levels of health etc that we theoretically have paid for."  It's a drop in the bucket...

[Lilith7]

Given the state of our planet I think its rather more than 'having their hearts in the right place' & perhaps more a matter of our survival.

National may well have 'business sense' but it lacks understanding of the day to day struggle people are now coping with & doesn't show even the tiniest inclination to attempt understanding.
A country is not a business & should be well run for the benefit of us all rather than just a small group of the well off.



I see the usual myth is still alive & well - beneficiaries are lazy layabouts who don't want to work'.

Greed is certainly a very damaging  factor; Neo Liberalism is based on it, to the detriment of this & virtually every country which foolishly adopted it.

I said "There are people who need and deserve benefits to survive ..... ". And the fact is that there ARE far too many whose laziness and greed is just taking money away from where it's really needed

Not all beneficiaries are lazy layabouts by any means, but there are plenty who are just taking all they can get and giving nothing back to society. Meanwhile those of us who do pay the taxes that are used to pay for it all are not seeing the societal benefits that we should. If money was freed up across the board within fairer systems where everyone gives what they should and doesn't try to rip everyone off, maybe we could then afford the levels of health etc that we theoretically have paid for. You expect the hard working "rich" - whoever they actually are - to fork out more tax, just so it can be wasted away and not used for the best benefit of society as a whole.

I'm well aware you used the usual disclaimer of there being 'some who really need help in the form of benefits.' But as usual, while also disparaging all those on benefits by implying that there are plenty who could do better.

There aren't 'plenty' - too many people are seriously struggling these days.


I'm really not at all sure exactly why it is that some people insist that people aren't contributing to society, are effectively 'giving nothing back' since I'd imagine that those cast aside & continually disparaged by society might just possibly be ever so slightly reluctant to do so & with some justification.

But the reality is that almost everyone does in some way contribute to society, however small that may be.

And seriously - 'the hard working rich?!'   No doubt working out exactly how much more they can squeeze from their tenants without them giving notice  could be a tricky thing to work out for those landlords..

As it happens though I'd rather see us all pay more tax; imo we should as far as possible emulate those Nordic countries which have high taxes which cover things like health & education etc. etc. & whose people are invariably at the top of those happiest people surveys.

[Zurdo]

I'd like PAYE tax payers have some some of the benefits of the rich - the ability to claim ''legitimate'' expenses and other means to pay less tax than we are actually taxed. We have to keep the system ''fair.''

[Lilith7]

I'd like PAYE tax payers have some some of the benefits of the rich - the ability to claim ''legitimate''  expenses and other means to pay less tax than we are actually taxed. We have to keep the system ''fair.''

Absolutely; that's the problem with the present situation because its so weighted in favour of those already well off.