ACT rules out working with NZ First

[C_T_Russell]

Luxon is really the one who has the last say and I doubt that Seymour can force Luxon to rule out working with them entirely unless National and ACT both have enough votes to govern together without NZF.

Although in this article I find it interesting that Seymour is essentially ruling out working with NZF in cabinet.
When I had earlier spoken to ACT members they told me they would refuse forming a government with NZF at all.
So perhaps ACT has warmed up to the idea a little, I doubt they would rather form no government and hand it over to Labour for a third term just for the sake of not working with NZF.

But the good news is that the recent roy morgan poll is indicating enough support for NZF to return to government again.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic...d-nz-first

[Wainuiguy]

And NZF has ruled out working with Labour limiting their options. Here is hoping TOP and NZF get 4.99% of the vote. TPM as well and no seat. Would be a great election result.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Believing political promises made before an election is a sign of gullibility imo.

[Wainuiguy]

Believing political promises made before an election is a sign of gullibility imo.

Certainly when it comes to Peters you can't believe anything he says.  He would happily go with Labour if the baubles are good.

[harm_less]

Seymour and Peters, two primadonnas working together? Ordering the popcorn now...

[Lilith7]

Seymour and Peters, two primadonnas working together? Ordering the popcorn now...

What could possibly go wrong...?

It would be entertaining though, if extremely annoying.

[harm_less]

Seymour and Peters, two primadonnas working together? Ordering the popcorn now...

What could possibly go wrong...?

It would be entertaining though, if extremely annoying.

Surely a certain upstanding and well experienced ex-airline CEO would keep them in line. The term clusterf*ck does seem apt, and a good portion of Godzone will be under Chinese ownership seems possible, so our infrastructure issues gain a whole new significance.

Never mind bilingual road signage. Maybe get used to some Mandarin characters joining the roading landscape?

[Lilith7]

What could possibly go wrong...?

It would be entertaining though, if extremely annoying.

Surely a certain upstanding and well experienced ex-airline CEO would keep them in line. The term clusterf*ck does seem apt, and a good portion of Godzone will be under Chinese ownership seems possible, so our infrastructure issues gain a whole new significance.

Never mind bilingual road signage. Maybe get used to some Mandarin characters joining the roading landscape?

No doubt that would be welcomed with open arms by the open-minded National party & their loyal supporters. 

Or something...

[Kenj]

What could possibly go wrong...?

It would be entertaining though, if extremely annoying.

Surely a certain upstanding and well experienced ex-airline CEO would keep them in line. The term clusterf*ck does seem apt, and a good portion of Godzone will be under Chinese ownership seems possible, so our infrastructure issues gain a whole new significance.

Never mind bilingual road signage. Maybe get used to some Mandarin characters joining the roading landscape?

Do you realise we wouldn't be unique? Lots of stuff (and videos) online of Chinese construction worldwide. I believe they mostly finish on time as well. There was a great video I saw of a pretty tricky bridge in Scandinavia. Very challenging with nature working against them all the time.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018...china.html

[harm_less]

Surely a certain upstanding and well experienced ex-airline CEO would keep them in line. The term clusterf*ck does seem apt, and a good portion of Godzone will be under Chinese ownership seems possible, so our infrastructure issues gain a whole new significance.

Never mind bilingual road signage. Maybe get used to some Mandarin characters joining the roading landscape?

Do you realise we wouldn't be unique? Lots of stuff (and videos) online of Chinese construction worldwide. I believe they mostly finish on time as well. There was a great video I saw of a pretty tricky bridge in Scandinavia. Very challenging with nature working against them all the time.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018...china.html

Not exactly a glowing example here: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61276168

And consider this. Conflicts of interest much?:

[Oh_hunnihunni]

This is how China colonises. By exploiting the finance markets in their favoured territories. There are always hidden hooks.

[R2x1]

Polls and promises aplenty. The silly season may be a little later than usual, but the polls and promises are well down to their usual standards.

[harm_less]

This is how China colonises. By exploiting the finance markets in their favoured territories. There are always hidden hooks.

Too true. China has always played the long game with strategies spanning the centuries. Western civilisation is far shorter sighted and realistically has only been of relevance over the past couple of centuries battling over mineral resources in our quest for dominance while the Chinese focus is to invest in security of supply. This has and is occurring in African countries with mineral reserves, Pacific nations with fish and geographical opportunities, our agricultural and silvicultural production and processing, and US economic institutions and manufacturing.

Easier to invade by investment than by warfare.

Why quibble over supply prices for products when it is possible to buy the supply chain and its distribution thereby also gaining the leverage and profits that are provided with vertical integration within an entire supply line?

So. if National are willing to allow China to pour finances into roading infrastructure what's the possibility that electricity, water and telecommunications infrastructures are the next offerings for an international investor hand-up? And while National's MPs were the most outspoken about adding Te Reo to road signage what will their take be on Mandarin or 'this expressway funded by Huawei' for example, who of course will also be stepping up for a portion of the tolls collected?

[harm_less]

This documentary series gives a good overview of the history of today's China and their philosophies.

This is #1 of 3 that can all be found on Christian Nilsen's YouTube channel.

[Lilith7]

Surely a certain upstanding and well experienced ex-airline CEO would keep them in line. The term clusterf*ck does seem apt, and a good portion of Godzone will be under Chinese ownership seems possible, so our infrastructure issues gain a whole new significance.

Never mind bilingual road signage. Maybe get used to some Mandarin characters joining the roading landscape?

Do you realise we wouldn't be unique? Lots of stuff (and videos) online of Chinese construction worldwide. I believe they mostly finish on time as well. There was a great video I saw of a pretty tricky bridge in Scandinavia. Very challenging with nature working against them all the time.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018...china.html

Some of the Pacific countries have found that they now owe large amounts of dosh to China; accepting their help may not always be the good move it can seem to be.

---

This is how China colonises. By exploiting the finance markets in their favoured territories. There are always hidden hooks.

Too true. China has always played the long game with strategies spanning the centuries. Western civilisation is far shorter sighted and realistically has only been of relevance over the past couple of centuries battling over mineral resources in our quest for dominance while the Chinese focus is to invest in security of supply. This has and is occurring in African countries with mineral reserves, Pacific nations with fish and geographical opportunities, our agricultural and silvicultural production and processing, and US economic institutions and manufacturing.

Easier to invade by investment than by warfare.

Why quibble over supply prices for products when it is possible to buy the supply chain and its distribution thereby also gaining the leverage and profits that are provided with vertical integration within an entire supply line?

So. if National are willing to allow China to pour finances into roading infrastructure what's the possibility that electricity, water and telecommunications infrastructures are the next offerings for an international investor hand-up? And while National's MPs were the most outspoken about adding Te Reo to road signage what will their take be on Mandarin or 'this expressway funded by Huawei' for example, who of course will also be stepping up for a portion of the tolls collected?

Its a great pity that our politicians seem unwilling or unable, to take even a slightly long term view of us & the rest of the world.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I don't think it is xenophobic to be very aware of other nations motivations when offering helping hands. After all, do we not have several motivations when we do the same?

[Kenj]

I don't think it is xenophobic to be very aware of other nations motivations when offering helping hands. After all, do we not have several motivations when we do the same?

Ah well, I see most of you think I am wrong....

So, in that case I shall just go back to what I was doing before I started worrying about building roads.

   

[harm_less]

Some interesting statistics here: https://oec.world/en/profile/country/nzl

Note that China is not only our biggest customer but also where the largest proportion of our imports come from. Also our exports are dominated by "Concentrated Milk" thereby making up the world's leading milk powder marketer with virtually half of it going to China.

The control that exists by being a supplier (or country's) biggest customer must also be recognised in light of those stat's. As an analogous example a known situation a few decades back was for Watties to coax farmers into trialling a small crop of garden peas. The returns were good so the farmer was tempted to increase the crop area in peas. Over a few seasons a sizeable portion of the farmer's income was being generated by peas and considerable investment had been made to boost production but then the price started reducing. Problem was that Watties were the only potential customer and they supplied the harvesting and processing plant and facilities for that crop in the province. The farmer was therefore stuck between a rock and a hard place so was pretty much 'owned' by Watties.

Today's news about Fonterra slashing their payout price to farmers due to a reduction of demand for milk powder by their Chinese market joined a few dots for me in respect of the two points above.

And of course Watties has long since ceased to be a NZ owner company, now owned by the US based Kraft Heinz conglomerate.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

It is very easy to change the character and culture of a community by introducing large numbers of a different culture. We have seen it time after time as nation states colonise other nations, and I know that change is inevitable, both the fast kind and the slow version.

But that doesn't mean I have to like it much.

[C_T_Russell]

What could possibly go wrong...?

It would be entertaining though, if extremely annoying.

Surely a certain upstanding and well experienced ex-airline CEO would keep them in line. The term clusterf*ck does seem apt, and a good portion of Godzone will be under Chinese ownership seems possible, so our infrastructure issues gain a whole new significance.

Never mind bilingual road signage. Maybe get used to some Mandarin characters joining the roading landscape?

Even more reason we need NZF.