Cut! Cut! Or free dental care for everyone

[Lilith7]

Interesting perspectives. On the one hand ACT want to cut everything to reduce 'wasteful spending', on the other the Greens want free dental care for everyone.



https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-nat...rvice-jobs

"The Act Party wants to dramatically reduce the headcount of the public service if it is in government after this year's election, by ordering ministries to immediately stop work on projects it wants to axe.

Act leader David Seymour promised this morning to issue “stop work notices” to public sector chief executives on day one of a government, claiming this will “save up to $1 billion on day one of the next government”.

The “stop work” idea works by asking ministers to take proposals to Cabinet to immediately “stop work” on projects it disagrees with (Seymour acknowledges this would not happen the first day of the government being formed, but early on in the government’s life).

He acknowledged that making redundancies in the public sector would mean some paying people out unused leave and other entitlements, but said this was ultimately worth it for the goal of reducing the headcount.

“There’s potential that you’re actually gonna have to pay a person out for an average of a couple of months to get to where you want to get to, but compared with the cost of many of these policies, that’s a small price to pay,” he said.

Act reckoned it could reduce the staff at MBIE  (the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment) by 50 per cent using stop-work notices.

Other things in line for the chop are Three Waters, He Waka Eke Noa (the Primary Sector Climate Action Partnership), Auckland Light Rail, Fees-Free and the Provincial Growth Fund."






https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-nat...dental-all

"The Greens have promised to fix the "broken and cruel" dental health system by making it free for all.

To pay for it, the party - currently polling around 9 or 10 percent - would make "fair and simple changes to the tax system".

"The time is now to make dental care free for everyone and to pay for it with a fair tax system," Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson said on Sunday.

"Right now, oral health is a luxury few can afford. Every year millions of people put off going to the dentist because it is too damn expensive. The average cost of going to the dentist is around $350, so it's hardly surprising that with food, rent, mortgage repayments, and power bills going up, so many people are choosing not to go."

At present, free dental care is only offered to people up to their 18th birthday. The Greens say only about 2 percent of public health spending goes on dental care, leaving Kiwis nearly $2.5 million out of pocket every day on services.
Going without has led to one in three adults with untreated tooth decay and half with signs of gum disease, the party said.

Davidson said people are living "in agony" and using pliers to pull their own teeth out because of the prohibitive cost.

"Under our plan, everyone in Aotearoa will be able to visit the dentist when they need to through a new community-based New Zealand Dental Service, which will also provide emergency and complex dental services through local hospitals or specialist sites."

"Seventeen years ago, the former Prime Minister Helen Clark expanded dental care from our youngest children to everyone aged 18 and under," co-leader James Shaw said. "The time is now to finish the job.

"Free dental will be fully funded through fair and simple changes to the tax system that will unlock the resources we need. Every dollar will come from those most able to contribute."

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Bloody communists...

[R2x1]

. . . and bleeding taxpayers

[Zurdo]

Axe the jobs and then pay them the dole ? Or has he a way of stopping the people he makes redundant getting the unemployment benefit ?

At a cousins funeral a few years ago (5 days older than me) his son said Dad had 2 professions, his day job, and dentistry as a sideline - he used to pull his own teeth...with a pair of special pliers he made. Agh, agh ! and collapsing in pain as he tried to pull a tooth. ''Go to the dentist Dad !'' 'Nah, nah, I got this son' And another yank and he'd have it out.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

. . . and bleeding taxpayers

Just the filthy rich ones though.

Makes that saying about Eat the Rich, kind of interesting.

With fava beans and a nice chianti.... 

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Axe the jobs and then pay them the dole ?  Or has he a way of stopping the people he makes redundant getting the unemployment benefit ?

At a cousins funeral a few years ago (5 days older than me)  his son said Dad had 2 professions, his day job, and dentistry as a sideline - he used to pull his own teeth...with a pair of special pliers he made. Agh, agh ! and collapsing in pain as he tried to pull a tooth. ''Go to the dentist Dad !''  'Nah, nah, I got this son'  And another yank and he'd have it out.

I do wonder though if government paid dentistry might result in a lot fewer dental students...

[Lilith7]

. . . and bleeding taxpayers

Just the filthy rich ones though.

Makes that saying about Eat the Rich, kind of interesting.

With fava beans and a nice chianti.... 




Eat the rich? But one just doesn't know where they might have been, does one.


We ought to do the sensible thing & raise taxes to cover all of health including dentistry. And education, while we're at it.

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Axe the jobs and then pay them the dole ?  Or has he a way of stopping the people he makes redundant getting the unemployment benefit ?

At a cousins funeral a few years ago (5 days older than me)  his son said Dad had 2 professions, his day job, and dentistry as a sideline - he used to pull his own teeth...with a pair of special pliers he made. Agh, agh ! and collapsing in pain as he tried to pull a tooth. ''Go to the dentist Dad !''  'Nah, nah, I got this son'  And another yank and he'd have it out.

I do wonder though if government paid dentistry might result in a lot fewer dental students...

It shouldn't they'd still have  a rewarding profession, & surely they're not just in it for the money...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Well, they supposedly (urban myth??) do have the highest suicide rate.

Which is perfectly understandable, imo...

[harm_less]

Also worth noting the potential prevention of so many other serious health issues by ensuring access to quality dental care. Systemic infections including leading to cardiac conditions, psychological improvement (and improved employment prospects) if unsightly teeth are addressed, gut and digestive health improvement, etc.

The Greens' philosophies go beyond throwing money at quick fixes and this policy is very much the fence at the top of the cliff, rather than the ambulance at the bottom.

[Olive]

Also worth noting the potential prevention of so many other serious health issues by ensuring access to quality dental care. Systemic infections including leading to cardiac conditions, psychological improvement (and improved employment prospects) if unsightly teeth are addressed, gut and digestive health improvement, etc.

The Greens' philosophies go beyond throwing money at quick fixes and this policy is very much the fence at the top of the cliff, rather than the ambulance at the bottom.

I agree, dental health is a very important aspect of general health and well-being.  I'm surprised that the Greens haven't made more of this aspect.

One unclear area of the policy is how will they draw the line between ordinary dentistry (which will be free) and cosmetic dentistry (which will not be covered).   The distinction is not always clear.   Many years ago my teeth were in a precarious state following some unwise extractions; the brilliant dentist who saved my teeth was a renowned cosmetic dentist who also had a general practice.   It would have been impossible to separate out the myriad techniques she used and the total cost was enormous.

[nzoomed]

Just add a sugar tax to pay for it, would be a win win.
Too many kids growing up on sugary soft drinks

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Heavens, we have had that issue for decades. I have three nieces, two have perfect teeth, one lost all her baby teeth - all three raised exactly the same way. Interesting that the wee toothless one ended up being type one diabetic by five...

I do think though the Greens are making some interesting policy announcements, most of which seem designed to put pressure on Labour, lol. Election campaigns can be such fun to watch...

[Lilith7]

Well, they supposedly (urban myth??) do have the highest suicide rate.

Which is perfectly understandable, imo...

I had to go & check; apparently not true if this is right.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/health...ok-numbers

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Also worth noting the potential prevention of so many other serious health issues by ensuring access to quality dental care. Systemic infections including leading to cardiac conditions, psychological improvement (and improved employment prospects) if unsightly teeth are addressed, gut and digestive health improvement, etc.

The Greens' philosophies go beyond throwing money at quick fixes and this policy is very much the fence at the top of the cliff, rather than the ambulance at the bottom.

Yes exactly - & that's why this move makes such excellent sense. Really, it should have been done decades ago.

[jim157]

yea lets stick it to the rich pricks


how about the government just being more responsible with the tax take they already collect instead of chucking it about like confetti

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Ohhhhhh look! Perfect teeth! Glorious...

[Lilith7]

Ohhhhhh look! Perfect teeth! Glorious...

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yea lets stick it to the rich pricks


how about the government just being more responsible with the tax take they already collect instead of chucking it about like confetti

" lets stick it to the rich pricks"

Their fair share is all that's required. 

And yes, all previous govts should have raised taxes to cover both health & education; in fact those two things are so important, they should be ring fenced so as to prevent any present or future politicians meddling with them by making 'improvements.'

[jim157]

whats their fair share

percentage wise they will be paying far more than you ever did

[king1]

whats their fair share

a good question for a tax policy specialist no doubt...

[Lilith7]

whats their fair share

percentage wise they will be paying far more than you ever did

Will they...

Given that we constantly hear of some wealthy people avoiding taxes by various means, I don't think its such a dreadful to expect them to pay up rather than avoiding taxes.
And I'm reasonably sure that any tax expert will be able to advise them - & anyone else - on what is their fair share.

[SueDonim]

The now not-so-recent "tax" report appears to have included capital assets in measuring how much tax is "fair". Even though that means that anyone who owns land to grow food is considered "wealthy" even if their day to day income/outgoing leaves them struggling. That is simply NOT fair.

What is fair is income tax. And in the main I think you will find that people pay what is required. Even if for no better reason than it's hard not to. Some tweaking of the levels would be good to reduce tax for the lowest income earners to give them some ability and incentive to move forward and to pull the cost of that from the higher income earners to balance it out. Overall the fairest tax of all is GST - less of it paid by those who don't buy much because they can't, and the most paid by those who buy expensive toys because they can.

For the proposal for free dental care - it would be ideal if that could be achieved. Dental health is a very important part of general health and people miss out on essential surgery or even die because their teeth/gums are unhealthy. But the implementation of a change is complex and needs to be one step at a time. I would start with subsidised checkups and fillings like we currently have for GP visits, then move it forward a step at a time.

The idea that a "wealth tax" would pay for it is pretty laughable. Partly because Labour have already ruled it out, even though their proposal sounded a lot fairer than many others (not that any tax on unrealised capital could be fair and/or good for the economy). The Green's proposal would see many sectors severely disadvantaged - ie anyone who grows food, the "mum and dad" property investors, etc - and people needing the dental care subsidy to survive as the tax will have taken all their income and everything they worked for. Some would be able to sell up, taking houses out of the rental market or opening up land for development, but those options stuff up the balance of the economy, and those forced into that position are likely to end up with money sitting in the bank, costing nearly as much tax as the interest accrued.

The best way to move forward is to stimulate the economy, get people working and spending and therefore paying more tax that way. And of course to prioritise and balance where and how the public money is spent, which is what ACT is trying to push for. They are too small a party to have a huge impact, but balanced with National could achieve some steps in the right direction.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Okay. But inheriting wealth is also a form of income, as is the profitable sale of property.

And most wealth - but not all - starts off with inheritance.