ACT pledge 'racist & inhumane'

[Lilith7]

ACT have pledged to abolish cultural reports provided to judges. A law lecturer says this is  racist & devoid of compassion & humanity. 

It would be damned near miraculous if our political parties were to acknowlege the reality that harsh penalties don't always bring about the change in criminal behaviour they like to claim & instead, actually looked at what works, rather than than vote catching by appealing to the 'lock em up brigade'.



https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/act...8b446&ei=8

"Act’s pledge to abolish cultural reports is racist and devoid of compassion and humanity. Cultural reports are designed to provide judges with important detail and context about a person who has committed a crime, and any events or issues that may have contributed to their offending.

Act is claiming that cultural reports are being used to “favour criminals and go soft on victims”, that they are a misuse of public funds and that scrapping them will “make our country safer and ensure that sentencing is appropriate to the crime”.




But these claims have no basis in evidence and reality.

[b]Lecturer Fuimaono Dylan Asafo[/b]•3h

[b]pinion by Auckland University Law Lecturer Fuimaono Dylan Asaf[/b]

It is clear that Act has not researched cultural reports, but that they are taking figures and statistics out of context and exploiting recent tragedies for their own political gain.

The reality is that these cultural reports (which National also wants to cut funding for) are one of the few ways that our criminal legal system can show compassion and humanity. They not only allow judges to do their jobs reliably and accurately by seeing crimes and the people who commit them in context.

They also allow judges to more deeply consider why someone has come to the moment they are in as they stand before the court. These reports enable judges to understand more about a person, their life and background, rather than simply the details of their offence.

Unlike Act, there are many experts in the criminal legal system who have carefully studied how cultural reports work. These experts have told us time and time again that these reports are essential to keep communities safe and create a fair and equal society for all.

Another experienced lawyer, Russell Fairbrother, has stated that cultural reports bring a “natural humanity” to the system and that anybody with a sense of decency, would want someone being sentenced to have their background considered.

“You’ve got to be able to understand why someone responds in the way that they respond...because you can’t address the problem until you identify it and then find a way out,” says Fairbrother."

Its dificult to comprehend that any political party can be so willfully ignorant. There are any number of various reports & studies which show  that harsh methods do not work well, & can instead have the effect of creating lifelong criminals - which virtually no one wants.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Why are we surprised?

[Zurdo]

Lock Him Up !

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Making New Zealand grate again?

[R2x1]

. . . oh no! It's full of ingrates

[Lilith7]

Lock Him Up !

Now that is a truly excellent idea! Any damn fool politician who deliberately ignores that harsh penalties do not get better results & spouts off with a 'get tough' idea should be compelled to spend - oh lets say 2 months - in prison themselves. With possible increases if they suggest anyhting really silly such as boot camps.

Imo the idea has great merit, & could work wonders. We could theoritically be rid of some of them for longish stretches of time - especially near elections. Result!

[dken31]

I was talking to a defense lawyer the other day and he was talking about just how much of a rort cultural reports are. The report writer often gets paid more than the public defense lawyer, a lot of them copy & paste (with a few very minor tweaks) the same report over and over and can pretty much write one up without having to really having to talk to the dependent. It's just a box ticking excercise with no valid purpose or proper oversight.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

And does this defence lawyer not challenge those box ticking exercises with the appropriate authorities? One would assume such corrupt practices would not be tolerated in the courts of law...

[dken31]

Would one really assume that though? He has a family to provide for and a mortgage to pay and he's already picked a relatively poorly paid area of law (public defence) out of a sense of duty, so you can hardly expect him to risk everything by going on a one man crusade against the cultural reports. If you can't accept that a white man is going to be promptly written off as a racist bigot should he question the report process, you're either extremely naive or blinded by your own ideology.

[Lilith7]

I was talking to a defense lawyer the other day and he was talking about just how much of a rort cultural reports are.  The report writer often gets paid more than the public defense lawyer, a lot of them copy & paste (with a few very minor tweaks) the same report over and over and can pretty much write one up without having to really having to talk to the dependent. It's just a box ticking excercise with no valid purpose or proper oversight.

Which is completely against the principle of cultural  reports; C & P isn't what's needed & those doing so must be aware that what they're doing is not just wrong but is damaging, both to the people who could have been helped & the principle of cultural reports.

If I was your defence lawyer mate, I'd be inclined to report the practice since its undermining the good which could otherwise be done.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Would one really assume that though? He has a family to provide for and a mortgage to pay and he's already picked a relatively poorly paid area of law (public defence) out of a sense of duty, so you can hardly expect him to risk everything by going on a one man crusade against the cultural reports.  If you can't accept that a white man is going to be promptly written off as a racist bigot should he question the report process, you're either extremely naive or blinded by your own ideology.

I am what? Argue the post, not the poster.

I think anyone who practices as a defence lawyer should do so from a strong ethical and moral position. So if that person sees something they see as corrupt they should have the courage to do something about it, not worry about their own self interest.

[Kenj]

Would one really assume that though? He has a family to provide for and a mortgage to pay and he's already picked a relatively poorly paid area of law (public defence) out of a sense of duty, so you can hardly expect him to risk everything by going on a one man crusade against the cultural reports.  If you can't accept that a white man is going to be promptly written off as a racist bigot should he question the report process, you're either extremely naive or blinded by your own ideology.

I am what? Argue the post, not the poster.

I think anyone who practices as a defence lawyer should do so from a strong ethical and moral position. So if that person sees something they see as corrupt they should have the courage to do something about it, not worry about their own self interest.

Hmmmn, I thought ethics and moral would have to be a runner when defending most of the clients he would get? They are trying to get someone off or a reduced sentence (including Home Detention). Not judging the morals or ethics of the case.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I disagree. A defence lawyer is in the job because they seek to use the law to defend their clients from accusations and charges in a court of law. They are not there to permit or ignore corrupt practices that might exist within their chosen profession. And certainly not to talk about them while doing nothing to stop them.

[harm_less]

I am what? Argue the post, not the poster.

I think anyone who practices as a defence lawyer should do so from a strong ethical and moral position. So if that person sees something they see as corrupt they should have the courage to do something about it, not worry about their own self interest.

Hmmmn, I thought ethics and moral would have to be a runner when defending most of the clients he would get? They are trying to get someone off or a reduced sentence (including Home Detention). Not judging the morals or ethics of the case.

I would suggest that ethics and morals for a criminal defence lawyer have more to do with working to the finer points of law than actually doing what is considered as socially 'right'. Years ago I heard a criminal defence lawyer (Bungay I think) explaining that his job was to tease out the details of incriminating evidence to find that one element of doubt. The measure of guilt is for it to be 'beyond reasonable doubt' so that is the angle a criminal defence lawyer focusses on.

Bungay (if that's who it was) was explaining how he could work to gain a not guilty result for the absolute low lifes his job involved defending. Essentially by making his job into a challenge to best gain from the legal system he could divorce himself from the right or wrong in protecting bad people.

The moral standpoint in this discussion is more aligned with choosing to do that job on reduced income potential in the legal aid system and defending those who don't have the financial means to pay for it rather than chasing the more lucrative clients with drug or corporate funds for a lawyer to mine.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Do you think so? I think to have a defence lawyer anecdotally quoted as expressing what is in fact a racist attitude to a commonly used tool in their profession is reprehensible, unless that same professional is working to prevent such abuse. I am certain there are lots of strategies the profession draws on, and even game to aid their clients, and no doubt some of those skate close to the line, but this one, if it is as quoted, is just plain racist. After all, these kinds of background reports are one of a number the courts access, alongside psych and medical history, previous criminal histories, family violence, migration records - all feed into decision processes.

Why call out one kind among so many if there isn't a racist component in there somewhere...

[SueDonim]

The racism that is rampant right through our society is from all the rules and benefits where a person declaring themselves to be Maori gets more than those who don't. Do we really feel that people who declare themselves to be Maori are somehow less capable than those who don't? Remembering that there are plenty of people of Maori ancestry who do not declare themselves to be Maori. That's the racism.

ACT is just trying to swing the balance back to a more sensible middle line where those who need help can get it without having to pull the race card. Where those who need help might actually get some of the millions of dollars that stay with the leaders that are given it and never end up in the hands of the people who actually need it.

Lawyers are people doing a job just like the rest us and whilst we can sit back and say that they should automatically deal with wrongs within the systems they work in, an individual has no more power than anyone else in a job where they know it's not right but can't do anything to fix it. Especially in today's environment where everything gets taken back to race, even when race has nothing to do with the problems. I have no problem accepting dken31's comment. It comes from someone at the coal face of experience.

[Lilith7]

Its very clear that the system has been & is in some circumstances, unfair to Maori. And that is why there's now some attempt to correct that imbalance.
Contrary to the claims of some who don't want this to happen for whatever interesting reason they may have, this is not in fact rasicm. Its an attempt to change to a fairer way of doing things.
I think really, its an especially shabby trick on the part of the ACT party who have surely set out to attract those of a racist view in order to gain votes. And those who will suffer if this piece of idiocy goes ahead will be firstly, those individuals involved & their families & in a wider sense, all of us.

Lawyers are allegedly there to in part, help uphold the law- therefore those who see the use of C&P rather than actual real cultural reports should have the courage to speak out.

I understand that in different circumstances, other people have spoken out when they see wrongdoing of whatever kind.

[Kenj]

The racism that is rampant right through our society is from all the rules and benefits where a person declaring themselves to be Maori gets more than those who don't. Do we really feel that people who declare themselves to be Maori are somehow less capable than those who don't? Remembering that there are plenty of people of Maori ancestry who do not declare themselves to be Maori. That's the racism.

ACT is just trying to swing the balance back to a more sensible middle line where those who need help can get it without having to pull the race card. Where those who need help might actually get some of the millions of dollars that stay with the leaders that are given it and never end up in the hands of the people who actually need it.

Lawyers are people doing a job just like the rest us and whilst we can sit back and say that they should automatically deal with wrongs within the systems they work in, an individual has no more power than anyone else in a job where they know it's not right but can't do anything to fix it. Especially in today's environment where everything gets taken back to race, even when race has nothing to do with the problems. I have no problem accepting dken31's comment. It comes from someone at the coal face of experience.

Well thought through and well expressed thoughts. 

[Oh_hunnihunni]

While I do love a philosophical debate, especially one where no one wins, lol, I know racism exists in our community and how much it hurts. Having a Maori child enlightened me very fast, from the moment she was born in National Women's right through till she struck out on her own. The reminders came almost daily.

We educated, aspirational, middle class, white people can understand it as a concept, but until you've seen it applied to your own flesh and blood that understanding is so superficial. My kid got me woke on the subject. So I'll always be calling it out when I see it.

[king1]

The racism that is rampant right through our society is from all the rules and benefits where a person declaring themselves to be Maori gets more than those who don't. Do we really feel that people who declare themselves to be Maori are somehow less capable than those who don't? Remembering that there are plenty of people of Maori ancestry who do not declare themselves to be Maori. That's the racism.

that's like saying beneficiaries shouldn't be given any help and support because they declare themselves unemployed?

The racism you speak of sounds a lot like my kids a few years back - bitterness because someone got more than someone else...