Tax cuts or more/better government services

[king1]

Broad sweeping tax cuts as National is promising is a tempting bribe, but how far would $14.6b go in improving education, health and other services in NZ. Pharmac could do with a billion or two...

not a bad idea from National as a source of revenue taxing foreign home buyers but I can't help thinking the money would be better spent elsewhere.  if I could get an appointment with my GP earlier than 3 weeks I would save plenty of money not needing to use an after hours service, probably make up for the tax cut.

As it is we will see more cuts to services under National imho...

[C_T_Russell]

I'm pretty stoked with what National has proposed, make the immigrants pay the price for becoming kiwis and foreign property investors pay 15%, that would fund alot of our growth.
Looks like they are proposing to remove regional fuel tax too.

[Lilith7]

Broad sweeping tax cuts as National is promising is a tempting bribe, but how far would $14.6b go in improving education, health and other services in NZ. Pharmac could do with a billion or two...

not a bad idea from National as a source of revenue taxing foreign home buyers but I can't help thinking the money would be better spent elsewhere.  if I could get an appointment with my GP earlier than 3 weeks I would save plenty of money not needing to use an after hours service, probably make up for the tax cut.

As it is we will see more cuts to services under National imho...

That does tend to be what they do so its likely to be what they'll do if voted in. I'd like to think most aren't daft enough to believe it.

[Wainuiguy]

Broad sweeping tax cuts as National is promising is a tempting bribe, but how far would $14.6b go in improving education, health and other services in NZ. Pharmac could do with a billion or two...

not a bad idea from National as a source of revenue taxing foreign home buyers but I can't help thinking the money would be better spent elsewhere.  if I could get an appointment with my GP earlier than 3 weeks I would save plenty of money not needing to use an after hours service, probably make up for the tax cut.

As it is we will see more cuts to services under National imho...

If spending more money on government services was the answer then why have their been virtually no improvement in government services in the last 6 years?  In fact many of those services have actually gotten worse.

Things like health and welfare are black holes - you could triple the amount of money they each have and their would still be poverty, waiting lists and 2 week waits for a doctors appointment.

[harm_less]

Broad sweeping tax cuts as National is promising is a tempting bribe, but how far would $14.6b go in improving education, health and other services in NZ. Pharmac could do with a billion or two...

not a bad idea from National as a source of revenue taxing foreign home buyers but I can't help thinking the money would be better spent elsewhere.  if I could get an appointment with my GP earlier than 3 weeks I would save plenty of money not needing to use an after hours service, probably make up for the tax cut.

As it is we will see more cuts to services under National imho...

If spending more money on government services was the answer then why have their been virtually no improvement in government services in the last 6 years?  In fact many of those services have actually gotten worse.

Things like health and welfare are black holes - you could triple the amount of money they each have and their would still be poverty, waiting lists and 2 week waits for a doctors appointment.

Worth remembering that we have been dealing with a pandemic for much of those 6 years which has cost a shit-tonne of money and placed enormous demands on our health sector together with many other social services. We can just be grateful that we weren't under a National government during that time because for one thing there would now be around 50,000 less Kiwis if we had been.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Do we trust these two parties to invest in public services though? They do not have a good history in that regard.

As for the last two terms there has been substantial investment in government services. The problem is though our population increased substantially putting pressure on all areas, while those servicing those departments saw salaries and living costs make overseas opportunities very attractive. The interesting thing we often fail to see is these are shared experiences worldwide. Public health systems in many nations are struggling with staffing issues and technology out pacing funding - but those systems still benefit many many more people than those unfortunate enough to be covered by private systems. Education is in a similar state worldwide, competition for qualified staff, and for fee paying students is high, and we are an island nation on the edge of the world - albeit one with a great reputation and other benefits.

As you say, black holes - and frankly, we have high expectations boosted by media and lobbyists campaigning on behalf of their own agendas.

Every housekeeper knows about cutting cloth to fit their budget. Elections are about picking the team that suits our ideas of how that household should be run. The thing most important to me though is not government services, not taxes, not even that hip op waiting list - it is the fact we are not moving fast enough or hard enough on climate change.

Because in order to run our national housekeeping, we have to have a safe house to do it from. And lots of us are in dire danger of losing that safe house, if we haven't already...

[Praktica]

What surprises me is that people are happy to be fooled all over again by national, recycling the same bullshit from their last period of government. I'm not surprised at the greedy idiots supporting it here, though.

[Zurdo]

I want both !

[Wainuiguy]

If spending more money on government services was the answer then why have their been virtually no improvement in government services in the last 6 years?  In fact many of those services have actually gotten worse.

Things like health and welfare are black holes - you could triple the amount of money they each have and their would still be poverty, waiting lists and 2 week waits for a doctors appointment.

Worth remembering that we have been dealing with a pandemic for much of those 6 years which has cost a shit-tonne of money and placed enormous demands on our health sector together with many other social services. We can just be grateful that we weren't under a National government during that time because for one thing there would now be around 50,000 less Kiwis if we had been.

That death count is total conjecture and you know it.

[Lilith7]

Do we trust these two parties to invest in public services though? They do not have a good history in that regard.

As for the last two terms there has been substantial investment in government services. The problem is though our population increased substantially putting pressure on all areas, while those servicing those departments saw salaries and living costs make overseas opportunities very attractive. The interesting thing we often fail to see is these are shared experiences worldwide. Public health systems in many nations are struggling with staffing issues and technology out pacing funding - but those systems still benefit many many more people than those unfortunate enough to be covered by private systems. Education is in a similar state worldwide, competition for qualified staff, and for fee paying students is high, and we are an island nation on the edge of the world - albeit one with a great reputation and other benefits.

As you say, black holes - and frankly, we have high expectations boosted by media and lobbyists campaigning on behalf of their own agendas.

Every housekeeper knows about cutting cloth to fit their budget. Elections are about picking the team that suits our ideas of how that household should be run. The thing most important to me though is not government services, not taxes, not even that hip op waiting list - it is the fact we are not moving fast enough or hard enough on climate change.

Because in order to run our national housekeeping, we have to have a safe house to do it from. And lots of us are in dire danger of losing that safe house, if we haven't already...

There are some things which need to be improved & then placed out of reach of meddling politicians & their 'improvements,' in the same way in which Sweden has put their system to combat poverty out of reach so that regardless of which party of absolute bastards is in govt, kids are still being given one hot meal a day & receiving health care,both done through schools.

No ssytem is ever going to be perfect but we shoukd be looking at other countries & what works well for them, & using those ideas here, adapted if need be.
 Things such as health & education

[harm_less]

Worth remembering that we have been dealing with a pandemic for much of those 6 years which has cost a shit-tonne of money and placed enormous demands on our health sector together with many other social services. We can just be grateful that we weren't under a National government during that time because for one thing there would now be around 50,000 less Kiwis if we had been.

That death count is total conjecture and you know it.

That was an early projection that I hadn't bothered revisiting. It appears the lives saved in NZ over the course of the pandemic was nearer a quarter of that number, still to a large part thanks to the effectiveness of the lock-down, social distancing, masking and vaccinations measures implemented by the government which were widely panned by the opposition parties on (now discounted) economic grounds.

From this: https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/fellows-...-covid-19/

"In New Zealand, at least 2,300 FEWER people have died than expected “under normal circumstances” over the course of the pandemic! .....

......That is in addition to 10,000+ deaths averted because we went hard, and few cases of “long COVID”, in which people suffer long term ill-health."

[harm_less]

Do we trust these two parties to invest in public services though? They do not have a good history in that regard.

As for the last two terms there has been substantial investment in government services. The problem is though our population increased substantially putting pressure on all areas, while those servicing those departments saw salaries and living costs make overseas opportunities very attractive. The interesting thing we often fail to see is these are shared experiences worldwide. Public health systems in many nations are struggling with staffing issues and technology out pacing funding - but those systems still benefit many many more people than those unfortunate enough to be covered by private systems. Education is in a similar state worldwide, competition for qualified staff, and for fee paying students is high, and we are an island nation on the edge of the world - albeit one with a great reputation and other benefits.

As you say, black holes - and frankly, we have high expectations boosted by media and lobbyists campaigning on behalf of their own agendas.

Every housekeeper knows about cutting cloth to fit their budget. Elections are about picking the team that suits our ideas of how that household should be run. The thing most important to me though is not government services, not taxes, not even that hip op waiting list - it is the fact we are not moving fast enough or hard enough on climate change.

Because in order to run our national housekeeping, we have to have a safe house to do it from. And lots of us are in dire danger of losing that safe house, if we haven't already...

In addition NZ, like many Western nations, is on the brink of a major disruption to its skilled workforce brought about by demographic factors related to the baby boom. Sectors including health, education, trades, primary produce and construction are well aware of their workforces rapidly approaching retirement age to a large extent. This is a long term issue with factors of decreasing population replacement and neglect of formal training such as our apprenticeship schemes over past decades further complicating the situation. And ours isn't the only country experiencing such issues so our workforce will continue to be poached overseas by financial incentives.

Throwing a few dollars at such long term problems just isn't going to solve them. Neglect by past governments has resulted in the mess that we're now seeing and longer term solutions are sorely needed especially as the economic and social disruptions of climate change start taking effect.

[Wainuiguy]

That death count is total conjecture and you know it.

That was an early projection that I hadn't bothered revisiting. It appears the lives saved in NZ over the course of the pandemic was nearer a quarter of that number, still to a large part thanks to the effectiveness of the lock-down, social distancing, masking and vaccinations measures implemented by the government which were widely panned by the opposition parties on (now discounted) economic grounds.

From this: https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/fellows-...-covid-19/

"In New Zealand, at least 2,300 FEWER people have died than expected “under normal circumstances” over the course of the pandemic! .....

......That is in addition to 10,000+ deaths averted because we went hard, and few cases of “long COVID”, in which people suffer long term ill-health."

Total bullshit.  National had they been in power would have likely followed the same pandemic plan Labour did.

[harm_less]

That was an early projection that I hadn't bothered revisiting. It appears the lives saved in NZ over the course of the pandemic was nearer a quarter of that number, still to a large part thanks to the effectiveness of the lock-down, social distancing, masking and vaccinations measures implemented by the government which were widely panned by the opposition parties on (now discounted) economic grounds.

From this: https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/fellows-...-covid-19/

"In New Zealand, at least 2,300 FEWER people have died than expected “under normal circumstances” over the course of the pandemic! .....

......That is in addition to 10,000+ deaths averted because we went hard, and few cases of “long COVID”, in which people suffer long term ill-health."

Total bullshit.  National had they been in power would have likely followed the same pandemic plan Labour did.

You have far more faith in National to go against its business orientated supporters than I have. A memory prompt for you perhaps. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/...ified.html

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Conjecture.

Useful word.

I think the Nats would've opened up a hell of a lot sooner myself. And probably not locked Auckland down at all.

More conjecture.

[Wainuiguy]

Conjecture.

Useful word.

I think the Nats would've opened up a hell of a lot sooner myself. And probably not locked Auckland down at all.

More conjecture.

Yes more whatifs.  Reality is no one knows what National would have done in the same situation.  But they did have the same pandemic plan and same experts so likely their response would have been similar.  

The Auckland and Northland lockdown actually went against what the experts said would be best because as a limited lockdown could not easily be controlled and was shown to be correct.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Well, as one of the diminishing number who have not had covid I am very grateful for all the covid prevention measures, and still think keeping masking and social distancing is a good idea.

Especially on days when I am peopled out.

[Kenj]

Snap, I haven't had it either. Mind you, I can't remember having a cold or flu anytime in my life. It is very real though, knocked the hell out of my wife. As she is in I her late 70's, that's not a good thing.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

My neighbour but one has been at her sons place now for over a month. First with covid, then with pneumonia. Despite being rather unsympathetic at first (she was not a good follower of covid prevention rules) we are now hoping she is just making the most of being waited on and not footing the bill, rather than the not so pleasant alternatives. Long covid has some very unpleasant after effects.

I'd rather be wary and just deal with my existing health lot!

[R2x1]

For today, thank you!