Minor parties, leaders debate - 21st September 2023

[Lilith7]

I watched this last night - with, it has to be said, many, many winces at some comments from some of them.

Winston being Winston



https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/earl...es-debate/


"New Zealand First leader Winston Peters, Te Pāti Māori co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, and Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson.   
Rebecca Wright was the moderator and she did a commendable job keeping this lot under control, although it was a challenge and there was plenty of spirited bickering. 
Performance wise Marama and Debbie managed to get their messages across crisply and put on a good double act. Marama in particular was ‘on’ and didn’t take any nonsense.   
David Seymour and Winston Peters in contrast tended to ramble and didn’t always deliver a clear message.   
But there was plenty of fun as well. Especially when Rebecca Wright asked each party for their bottom lines in possible coalition negotiations. While Greens and Te Pati Maori spoke simply —wealth tax and poverty— Winston Peters and David Seymour put on a show over whether they could work together that gave you a glimpse of what Luxon may have to deal with... "  



https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/...-live.html


"8:32pm - Wilson's standout moment was when Peters asked the "adults in the room" to "keep their trousers on" for the sheer oddity of that. 

O'Sullivan said Peters got a punch in with the "cis white man" comment. 

Lynch said there is no possibility Seymour and Peters can work together as they can't agree on anything.

"One of Winston's best jabs at him was he's not baiting he's imitating. It is quite incredible to watch the real-life transformation of David Seymour into a kind of low-rent  Winston Peters when he hates the guy," Lynch said.

Wilson said if the pair try to sit together around the Cabinet table it won't last long.

NZME's Fran O'Sullivan said she wanted Davidson and Ngarewa-Packer to break the "bromance" and debate on points as well. She did praise them for putting their hands up for a wealth tax, which Labour shyed away from.

"The question is can anyone [work with Peters]," Seymour said. "Nobody has been able to."

Davidson when people have something to lose, something they belong to, crime decreases. She wants community support to prevent violence and crime.

Peters said he wants gangs outlawed and wants them locked up separate from the rest of the prison population.

"There are 2000 spare beds in the prisons," he said.

Ngarewa-Packer said Te Pāti Māori believes being tough on crime and soft on poverty is not the way forward. She said we "can't prison our way out of justice" and invest in prevention.



Davidson said Seymour wants to strip away agencies that highlight injustice, while Ngarewa-Packer said the cuts are "clearly about race".

Peters said to get equality we don't need separate "divisive" institutions.

Ngarewa-Packer said wanting a seperate Māori health system and justice system is about trying to lift the playing field. She said the only way to address inequities is by addressing the fact "we were raised in a system not designed for us".

She accused Seymour of baiting with an "anti-Māori rhetoric", to which he denied."

[Wainuiguy]

An hour of ho hum and unrealistic wishes.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Yes, the men did make complete and utter idiots of themselves.

[Lilith7]

Yes, the men did make complete and utter idiots of themselves.

What's interesting is the readiness with which most on the right leap to the tired old remedies - 'lock em up & throw away the key', 'make kids learn basics' while knowing the dificulties  involved but ignoring them.

Winston & David Seymour are both unbelievable sometimes. 

[Oh_hunnihunni]

The bit that got me wax Fran telling us all the women's consensus was boring. That politics should involve more conflict.

Old style attitude. Like old style economic theory. Someone give that woman a doughnut...

[Lilith7]

The bit that got me wax Fran telling us all the women's consensus was boring. That politics should involve more conflict.

Old style attitude. Like old style economic theory. Someone give that woman a doughnut...

You'd think most of us these days would realise that what''s needed is more consensus, not less of it.

I think we've moved far beyond that old style of politics; its just that some have difficulty in recognsing that. Which is partly why some had a problem with Jacinda Ardern leading.


It was some years ago now, but I really can't remember so many having a big problem with Jenny Shipley as PM....perhaps its just women on the left leading  they have problems with.

[Wainuiguy]

Yes, the men did make complete and utter idiots of themselves.

Ho-hum were Peters and Seymour.  The  unrealistic promises were firmly reserved for the women.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I think they are very genuine, both of them. I cannot say the same for the others.

[Wainuiguy]

I think they are very genuine, both of them. I cannot say the same for the others.

Never said they weren't genuine- but easy to promise the world when there is slim hope to deliver it.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Why is there slim hope though? Because that is where the real battle lies...

[Lilith7]

National's Erica Stanford wasn't happy with the Green & Te Pati Maori speakers having a bit of fun with it; she claimed they were 'behaving like school girls.'

Good grief - if they (& we) can't have a bit of fun amongst the doom & gloom which is often politics under discussion, then we really do have a problem. It looks unfortunately like mean spiritedness on her part.
Their two parties do after all, have some things in common so there's no good reason why they shouldn't support & encourage one another - & if that provides a bit of laughter for the rest of us then that is no bad thing.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/...ebate.html

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Frmale cattiness is an ongoing issue for women.

[Wainuiguy]

Why is there slim hope though? Because that is where the real battle lies...

Because to deliver on promises requires them to be in government.   The likelihood of that is not good.

[Lilith7]

Frmale cattiness is an ongoing issue for women.

Yeah...I never really got that, though, bit of a waste of time & pointless imo.


There's no way to be 100% sure of an election result when we've yet to have the election. The polls are not always accurate, & things can always change.

Some of the minor parties working together might be interesting. Which, if voters get too fed up with the antics of the main parties & the loony fringe parties, might one of these days, happen.
 For example, its obvious that most want some type of wealth tax (including a few wealthy people) but so far no party wants to go anywhere near it. That could change rapidly if one or more of the smaller parties decided to go ahead with it.

[C_T_Russell]

Marama being Marama and sealing the parties fault as communist right there.
The Greens need to be called the Robin hood party.
Also the first time I've heard a politician swear.
Winston probably gets my vote listening to them all, was so childish to watch the way Marama and Debbie behave.
The only 2 politicians in that debate with real solutions are Winston and Seymour, I hope they can put their differences aside and work together, as its very possible ACT, NZF and the Nats will need to work together.

[Lilith7]

Marama being Marama and sealing the parties fault as communist right there.
The Greens need to be called the Robin hood party.
Also the first time I've heard a politician swear.
Winston probably gets my vote listening to them all, was so childish to watch the way Marama and Debbie behave.
The only 2 politicians in that debate with real solutions are Winston and Seymour, I hope they can put their differences aside and work together, as its very possible ACT, NZF and the Nats will need to work together.

So you've no idea whatever of what a communist is then. 

I could as easily call David Seymour a fascist - & be just as wrong.



Winston & Seymour 'working togethere' is the stuff of nightmares. Both are prepared to ignors facts in order to progress their particular causes & any nasty consequences - for others,obviously, - doesn't bother them.