Nah, f*** off, Maori on treaty referendum

[Lilith7]

David Seymour may not get the reaction he wants. That he even has such an intention shows clearly how out of touch he is.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300994...1#cxrecs_s



[b]"ACT wants to push ahead with its Treaty referendum – but reporter Joel Maxwell discovers there could be extraordinary pushback from everyday Māori.[/b]

Māori are warning of sweeping protests, division and the potential for violence if ACT’s proposed Treaty referendum gets across the line in coalition negotiations for the new government.

However, ACT leader David Seymour says he doesn’t accept there will be disruption – and he has his finger on the pulse of the Māori world.

Ōtaki man Nathan Kirker said there would be an “uproar” if the government tried to launch the referendum. He said Australia’s vote on The Voice, the same day as New Zealand's election, was a “prime example” of how referendums were a numbers game.
Kirker would join any protests, he said, as would many people he knew – especially from Ōtaki, which has a strong reo-speaking Māori population. “[and] Not just the Māori, the Pākehā are great here too.”

Kirker said he would feel real anger if the referendum went ahead.

“If someone tells me, walking down the street, that they would tick for the referendum and say ‘yes’, that would p… me off … it’s like, ‘Nah, f… off.’”

Gina Chaffey-Aupouri, from the East Coast, said the referendum would cause “heaps” of division.

“I think they’re gonna cause a war ... they’ll find Tāme Iti on their back step.”

The Treaty was hugely important to her, she said, in every aspect of her life.

“I live and breathe and walk by the Treaty; because it is my life, it is my breath, it is my blood that flows through my body.”

Meanwhile, Wellington woman Paula-Maree McKenzie says there have been two nation-defining marches spanning the country in her lifetime. She was at both.

She was there with her whānau in 1975, as a 7-year-old, watching on as Dame Whina Cooper and land marchers arrived in Wellington. As an adult in 2004, she was in the Foreshore and Seabed march.

McKenzie said Seymour probably thought that he was being reasonable.

“I think he doesn’t think it’s crazy; I actually think he’s oblivious that division may happen.”

The vast majority of people hadn’t bothered to read the Treaty, she said. “And these people are going to be able to tick a box to determine my relationship with the Crown?”

[king1]

I do believe he is going to be in for an unpleasant surprise - most New Zealanders, maori and pakeha, have grown up with the treaty of waitangi.  Overturning something like this seems rather insurmountable to me.

Could be another Leighton Baker moment...

"obviously by the result, maybe there's not that many people that agree with us, but we still have an obligation to present a different view,"
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/...osses.html

[Lilith7]

I do believe he is going to be in for an unpleasant surprise - most New Zealanders, maori and pakeha, have grown up with the treaty of waitangi.  Overturning something like this seems rather insurmountable to me.

Could be another Leighton Baker moment...

"obviously by the result, maybe there's not that many people that agree with us, but we still have an obligation to present a different view,"
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/...osses.html

It would be a huge change & I really don't think most of us want it; overturning the treaty could very well be asking for trouble. To the extent where you really have to wonder if David Seymour has really fully considered the possible reaction.

[SueDonim]

It's a shame that people are getting wound up about this. ACT is not proposing to get rid of the Treaty (they probably can't anyway) but wish to properly define the principles, write the relevant legislation then have a referendum to ratify it. See https://www.act.org.nz/act_proposes_refe...governance. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, especially considering how damage and bad feeling are growing with the indiscriminate application of it at the moment. It wouldn't be so bad if there was genuine good coming out of settlements, but so often the leaders get all the flash cars and the people they supposedly represent still wallow in poverty and we carry on as before with Maori being disproportionate in all the negative statistics when they shouldn't be. Something needs to change and this proposed process is at least an effort to get it right.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

ACT want to redefine the principles... Bunch of white wealthy middle class men in suits want things their way? So, they make big donations to a malleable political party with conservative roots and hey presto!
More of the old same same stuff...

[Lilith7]

ACT want to redefine the principles... Bunch of white wealthy middle class men in suits want things their way? So, they make big donations to a malleable political party with conservative roots and hey presto!
More of the old same same stuff...

Precisely why there's extremely good reason to be very, very wary of this. The men in suits seldom want anything which is good for anyone other than themselves.

I can't say I've ever heard the term 'wallow in poverty' before...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Mmmmm, weighty indeed.

[zqwerty]

Men in suits spouting corporate slogans, why don't I believe them?

We need to get rid of Luxon and his ilk as soon as possible.

This is who is running the country:

From selling deodorant to running the country: New Zealand’s new PM, Christopher Luxon

A Millionaire Christian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/o...pher-luxon

[Lilith7]

Men in suits spouting corporate slogans, why don't I believe them?

We need to get rid of Luxon and his ilk as soon as possible.

This is who is running the country:

From selling deodorant to running the country: New Zealand’s new PM, Christopher Luxon

A Millionaire Christian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/o...pher-luxon

"But he has frustrated attempts to pigeonhole his politics as purely conservative; Luxon identified greenhouse gas emissions and child poverty in his maiden speech to parliament as particular matters of concern,"


Which will apaprently be miraculously unaffected  by removing that cost of living rise from benefits....

[Oh_hunnihunni]

A millionaire Christian who at his heart believes wealth is an indication of godliness. A reward for being 'good'.

And of course, the opposite to that...

[Lilith7]

A millionaire Christian who at his heart believes wealth is an indication of godliness. A reward for being 'good'.

And of course, the opposite to that...

Indeed; its always so lovely when one's beliefs coincide with those of one's god....not to mention ever so convenient.



You really do have to wonder at the apparently limitless human capacity for determinedly not seeing some blindingly obvious things...

[C_T_Russell]

It's a shame that people are getting wound up about this. ACT is not proposing to get rid of the Treaty (they probably can't anyway) but wish to properly define the principles, write the relevant legislation then have a referendum to ratify it. See https://www.act.org.nz/act_proposes_refe...governance. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, especially considering how damage and bad feeling are growing with the indiscriminate application of it at the moment. It wouldn't be so bad if there was genuine good coming out of settlements, but so often the leaders get all the flash cars and the people they supposedly represent still wallow in poverty and we carry on as before with Maori being disproportionate in all the negative statistics when they shouldn't be. Something needs to change and this proposed process is at least an effort to get it right.

Agreed, all the maori elite behind each iwi get good payouts, own a bunch of assets and living the good life, meanwhile all the maori dont have access to their land and the iwi are not building homes for their own people.
Quite sad really.
They should all be in a good position with the amount of wealth the iwi hold.

[Lilith7]

It's a shame that people are getting wound up about this. ACT is not proposing to get rid of the Treaty (they probably can't anyway) but wish to properly define the principles, write the relevant legislation then have a referendum to ratify it. See https://www.act.org.nz/act_proposes_refe...governance. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, especially considering how damage and bad feeling are growing with the indiscriminate application of it at the moment. It wouldn't be so bad if there was genuine good coming out of settlements, but so often the leaders get all the flash cars and the people they supposedly represent still wallow in poverty and we carry on as before with Maori being disproportionate in all the negative statistics when they shouldn't be. Something needs to change and this proposed process is at least an effort to get it right.

Agreed, all the maori elite behind each iwi get good payouts, own a bunch of assets and living the good life, meanwhile all the maori dont have access to their land and the iwi are not building homes for their own people.
Quite sad really.
They should all be in a good position with the amount of wealth the iwi hold.

Here you go - a few facts, actual facts rather than the BS most try to peddle.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/death-rates-and...expectancy
Health

"The Social Security Act 1938, which improved the access of those on low incomes to education, health and housing, contributed to improvements in Māori life expectancy, but Māori continued to die much earlier than non-Māori.
After the Second World War many Māori moved to towns and cities, where there was better health care. Māori incomes rose and living conditions improved. Māori also benefited from health and social policies. Life expectancy increased, and became closer to that of Pākehā. In 2013 it was still lower than Pākehā – 77 for women and 73 for men compared to 84 for non-Māori women and 80 for non-Māori"



https://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal-arti...pen-access

Health
"Rangatahi Māori—Māori youth—experience higher rates of mental health distress and addictions compared to young Pākehā—New Zealanders of European descent.
6
 There are growing numbers of rangatahi Māori who report depressive symptoms (28% in 2019 vs 14% in 2012).
1
 Māori are more likely to be hospitalised for intentional self-harm
7
 and more likely to use substances than non-Māori.
3
 
Despite higher reported rates of mental health distress, there are treatment inequities for Māori compared to Pākehā.
8,9
 Lee and colleagues found that Māori adults are more likely to report “psychological distress” and be at higher risk of developing anxiety and depression, but Pākehā are more likely to report a clinical diagnosis of depression or anxiety.
9
Māori youth are less likely to receive medications (e.g., antidepressants) compared with non-Māori youth.
11
 Māori are more likely, however, to be admitted to hospital, readmitted after discharge, secluded and treated under the compulsory assessment and treatment protocols and in forensic services.
6
 Overall, previous findings suggest that Māori are not able to access the services that they need to be properly assessed and diagnosed."


https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/4802...ori%20kids.

Poverty


"About 187,300 Kiwi children live in poverty, 16 percent of the population. That was well below the 2021 target of 18.8 percent, a clear achievement - on paper.

But a demographic breakdown raises questions. Just 14 percent of Pākehā kids were living in poverty, compared to 17.8 percent of Māori kids. That gap isn't new, Eivers said, but that does not make it any less alarming.

"That's going to impact the whole of society," she said.
"It'll cost more in the health system, more in the education system, and those young ones will, as they grow into adults, be disenfranchised and won't be able to live their best lives."

An end to the deliberate race baiting is called for.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/499...emn-racism



"In an open letter, Māori and community leaders are calling for an end to a "divisive style of politics".

"Racism, in any form, should have no place in our elections," the letter starts.



"Leaders, whether it is within your iwi, your whānau or of a political party, have a responsibility to call out racism and race-baiting and publicly condemn it.

"Race-baiting for votes is not new here in Aotearoa. But this election, the dog whistling and the outright public displays of racism from political candidates have increased to unacceptable levels.



The letter acknowledged Labour Party leader Chris Hipkins calling for the end to race-baiting in election campaigns.



It also acknowledged the Green Party and Te Pāti Māori for "their anti-racism positions and respect the words of Kiingi Tuheitia Pōtatau Te Wherowhero IIV, who, at his Koroneihana called for political parties to stop using Māori people as a political football".



"It is racist to call for Māori, elite or not, to be cut out and buried."

It said it was "ignorant" to call the signing of Te Tiriti "a wee experiment".



"And it is ignorant to think you have a right to erase Te Tiriti from legislation and rewrite it in your own words."

The letter said Māori deserved better from those who wanted to lead the country."