The Nat's gang policy hits a bit of opposition

[Lilith7]

With regard to their idiocy around facial tattoos; the mob have hired lawyers. That might prove interesting - clearly Mark Mitchell & National are eager to appear tough, but perhaps they didn't consider that we already have one politician with a full Moko, nor that more & more Maori women are having  Moko Kauae. Can they legally apply such a daft law to just one section of the commmunity or will that prove illegal....


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/mongrel-...BKJDDEV6Y/


"The Mongrel Mob has instructed a lawyer to look at National’s gang policy and threats that Foul Masks - members who have gang regalia tattooed on their faces - will be forced to use makeup to cover up.
Free speech advocates, meanwhile, said National’s policy was “bad and counterproductive”, likely to “push gangs further underground to fester”.
Tokoroa lawyer Arama Ngapo confirmed that she had been asked by the Mongrel Mob to investigate the legality of National’s election pledge.
“I can confirm that I have been asked for legal advice on that matter,” Ngapo told the Herald.



“If Mr [Prime Minister-elect Christopher] Luxon thinks the solution to gangs in Aotearoa/New Zealand is to ‘Thin Lizzy’ the problem away, he is ignoring over 100 years of colonisation and systemic racism which left Māori in a cycle of poverty that led to the creation of gangs.”



Last week potential incoming Police Minister Mark Mitchell announced that National - the majority party of the incoming coalition Government - may ban gang facial tattoos if its planned ban on gang patches does not work.
Mitchell said gang members will be made to apply foundation when they wake up in the morning or face arrest."

[Zurdo]

So they already realise that the patch ban won't work...and they think a facial tattoo ban will ? None of what they plan to will work. Start at the other end of the problem, but the lock em up and punish crowd can't see that.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

It's the old Scarlet Letter rules, and that did a fat lot of good too...

It does though shine a nice bright spotlight on the racism reflected back on some of our community by their choices of leadership. These folk need to step into the 21st century and put old ideas away.

[Lilith7]

So they already realise that the patch ban won't work...and they think a facial tattoo ban will ?  None of what they plan to will work.  Start at the other end of the problem, but the  lock em up and punish crowd can't see that.

You have to wonder at those who still, despite no shortage of proof that their bash bash bash reaction just does not work & may very well worsen the situation, somehow cannot see past the primitve ideas we've used over & over again.

---

It's the old Scarlet Letter rules, and that did a fat lot of good too...

It does though shine a nice bright spotlight on the racism reflected back on some of our community by their choices of leadership. These folk need to step into the 21st century and put old ideas away.

That would be an excellent move. 

And if we might have felt very slightly smug,that at least we're not as bad as Australia after their recent NO vote, the idiotic ideas being waved about by this lot don't bode at all well.

Commonsense doesn't seem that much to ask for, surely...

[Wainuiguy]

Personally I think gangs should be declared terrorist organisations and treat them as such.

[Lilith7]

Personally I think gangs should be declared terrorist organisations and treat them as such.

Of course you do...

[Wainuiguy]

Personally I think gangs should be declared terrorist organisations and treat them as such.

Of course you do...

Whereas you would give them a big loving hug and declare that they really are just boys in a club.

[harm_less]

Personally I think gangs should be declared terrorist organisations and treat them as such.

A very simplistic approach. The problems start when you try to define the status of 'gangs'. A group of motorcyclists with stylised identification such as the Ulysses club? A cultural ethnic group with authentic tattoos such as a kapa haka club? An association of ex-military comrades with identifying clothing? A religious group wearing traditional garb?

Mark Mitchell has already accused a Maori guy of being a gang member due to his having traditional facial tattoos https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/e...R2WXPB2Z4/
Like so many of National's electioneering policies this has been very poorly thought through.

[Wainuiguy]

Personally I think gangs should be declared terrorist organisations and treat them as such.

A very simplistic approach. The problems start when you try to define the status of 'gangs'. A group of motorcyclists with stylised identification such as the Ulysses club? A cultural ethnic group with authentic tattoos such as a kapa haka club? An association of ex-military comrades with identifying clothing? A religious group wearing traditional garb?

Mark Mitchell has already accused a Maori guy of being a gang member due to his having traditional facial tattoos https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/e...R2WXPB2Z4/
Like so many of National's electioneering policies this has been very poorly thought through.

Well let's start with just the obvious ones:

Black Power
Mongrel Mob
Comancheros
Filthy Few
Etc

There is lready a list the Police will have of Gangs involved in CRIMINAL activity in NZ.

[harm_less]

A very simplistic approach. The problems start when you try to define the status of 'gangs'. A group of motorcyclists with stylised identification such as the Ulysses club? A cultural ethnic group with authentic tattoos such as a kapa haka club? An association of ex-military comrades with identifying clothing? A religious group wearing traditional garb?

Mark Mitchell has already accused a Maori guy of being a gang member due to his having traditional facial tattoos https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/e...R2WXPB2Z4/
Like so many of National's electioneering policies this has been very poorly thought through.

Well let's start with just the obvious ones:

Black Power
Mongrel Mob
Comancheros
Filthy Few
Etc

There is lready a list the Police will have of Gangs involved in CRIMINAL activity in NZ.

As I was trying to impress on you the difficulty is not naming the obvious criminal gangs but in where the cut-off is for National's anti gang policies. There are plenty of motorcycle fraternities and other groups of like minded individuals throughout New Zealand so how do you propose National define the legality of each and every one of them in regard to being "gangs"?

[Lilith7]

I think Mark Mitchell is of the 'lock em up & throw away the key' brand, which doesn't bode well for the future & any hope of progress. I'm not sure just how politicians can manage to be so unaware (to put it politely) that harsh punitve measures just do not work & may well help create lifelong criminals. It isn't that difficult to look around the world & see what works well elsewhere, what might be adapted to work well here.

But the old approach of 'lock em up & throw away the key' is much loved by both uninformed voters & politicians; voters because punitive measures give people the feeling that those responsible for crimes are paying for it (not always the case) & by politicians because they know very well that talking about getting tough on crime in particular gets them votes.
Lots of votes.

As to their nonsense about facial tattoos, National will either have to loudly & clealry change that (unlikely) or very quietly let it drop. Unless they can come up with some legal way of requiring those with facial tattoos to cover them in makeup or some type of face covering ( the latter seems highly unlikely) & distinguishing between 'gang members tattoos' & other people with other types of facial tattoos - the whole thing seems muddled & ill thought out.

[Praktica]

I can see a business in supplying provocative temporary facial tatoos.

[Wainuiguy]

Well let's start with just the obvious ones:

Black Power
Mongrel Mob
Comancheros
Filthy Few
Etc

There is lready a list the Police will have of Gangs involved in CRIMINAL activity in NZ.

As I was trying to impress on you the difficulty is not naming the obvious criminal gangs but in where the cut-off is for National's anti gang policies. There are plenty of motorcycle fraternities and other groups of like minded individuals throughout New Zealand so how do you propose National define the legality of each and every one of them in regard to being "gangs"?

I guess the criminal part was too hard for you to comprehend?

You can back up Lilith with a few gang member hugs.

[harm_less]

As I was trying to impress on you the difficulty is not naming the obvious criminal gangs but in where the cut-off is for National's anti gang policies. There are plenty of motorcycle fraternities and other groups of like minded individuals throughout New Zealand so how do you propose National define the legality of each and every one of them in regard to being "gangs"?

I guess the criminal part was too hard for you to comprehend?

You can back up Lilith with a few gang member hugs.

I guess Mark Mitchell missed the memo about 'criminal' too then seeing how he's giving the bloke in that Herald article a hard time just based on the facial tattoos, and therein lies the problem with broad brush anti gang legislation.

[Praktica]

What happened to all of the whining about personal rights? The right on here are obviously on the authoritarian side!

[Lilith7]

I can see a business in supplying provocative temporary facial tatoos.

What an extremely interesting idea....

[Wainuiguy]

I guess the criminal part was too hard for you to comprehend?

You can back up Lilith with a few gang member hugs.

I guess Mark Mitchell missed the memo about 'criminal' too then seeing how he's giving the bloke in that Herald article a hard time just based on the facial tattoos, and therein lies the problem with broad brush anti gang legislation.

You really should go to the nearest gang pad and give them all a big hug and kiss.

[king1]

I guess Mark Mitchell missed the memo about 'criminal' too then seeing how he's giving the bloke in that Herald article a hard time just based on the facial tattoos, and therein lies the problem with broad brush anti gang legislation.

You really should go to the nearest gang pad and give them all a big hug and kiss.

so to paraphrase yourself?

You really should go to the nearest terrorist organisation and give them all a big hug and kiss.

[R2x1]

I can see a business in supplying provocative temporary facial tatoos.

Not a totally secure business case when free permanent scribble face kits are available in most any jail - or gaol if you are a traditionalist.