Rafah, the last refuge for Palestinians

[Lilith7]

I suspect that many Israelis  wish they could remove their disgraceful govt. Its difficult to find any reason as to why both Hamas leaders & the Israeli govt shouldn't be tried for war crimes.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...ace-to-run

"The last refuge is no longer a refuge. Around half of Gaza’s 2.3 million people have found some kind of shelter in Rafah, often under canvas, raising the border city’s population fivefold. Now, though desperate, traumatised and exhausted, many are readying to flee again.
Benjamin Netanyahu has said that Israeli troops will soon enter, despite warnings from António Guterres, the UN secretary general, that it would “increase what is already a humanitarian nightmare with untold regional consequences”. Strikes on the city appeared to be intensifying on Thursday.



The UN has warned that a ground offensive could lead to war crimes. It is hard to see how devastating civilian casualties would not result, given what has happened in less crowded areas. Israel said in late January that it had killed only about 30% of Hamas fighters – around 10,000, including 1,000 killed in the group’s murderous attack on 7 October, which claimed 1,200 mostly Israeli lives. The total death toll stands at 27,000 people, more than 11,000 of them children. Another 66,000 have been injured. A quarter of the population is starving.

Israel has reportedly told Egypt that it will allow people to leave Rafah before it moves in. But not everyone is capable of fleeing again, and there is nowhere safe to go. Some of those who have tried to leave the city in recent days have not been heard of since making the attempt. Fierce fighting continues in the Gazan city of Khan Younis. Overall, more than half of Gaza is still under evacuation orders, and Israel has said that fighting will continue in the north, where it had previously said operations were completed, due to the reappearance of Hamas combatants and officials.

Where fighting has ceased, a wasteland is left. Homes, schools, bakeries, hospitals, mosques, churches, sewage infrastructure, aid centres – all erased from the earth. In the words of one witness: “It’s like after an atomic bomb.” The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) has also complained that it has not been able to deliver aid to the north for more than a fortnight. A major ground offensive in Rafah threatens to cut off Gaza’s lifeline completely, since aid comes via the city’s crossing with Egypt.

Meanwhile, each day of war increases the need for those deliveries."

[zqwerty]

The whole affair is absolutely disgraceful but a few modern day words encouraging peacekeeping are not going to solve anything for two tribes that have been fighting for the last two thousand years and hate each other.

[Lilith7]

There doesn't seem much hope for our species if we can't even manage to stop killing each other.

[zqwerty]

There's a Mark Twain quote - "Every civilization carries the seeds of its own destruction, and the same cycle shows in them all. The Republic is born, flourishes, decays into plutocracy, and is captured by the shoemaker whom the mercenaries and millionaires make into a king. The people invent their oppressors, and the oppressors serve the function for which they are invented."

[Oh_hunnihunni]

And it is all such a terrible waste...

[Lilith7]

There's a Mark Twain quote - "Every civilization carries the seeds of its own destruction, and the same cycle shows in them all. The Republic is born, flourishes, decays into plutocracy, and is captured by the shoemaker whom the mercenaries and millionaires make into a king. The people invent their oppressors, and the oppressors serve the function for which they are invented."

He seems to have been right about a great many things, including a dog's opinion of humans - & who could blame them. We are fools & idiots.

[nzoomed]

Its always the civilian population that pays the price, hopefully this conflict can be resolved before any more lives are lost.
So much of the area is levelled, and Israel claim only 30% of Hamas fighters are gone?
How accurate are those figures?

[Lilith7]

Its always the civilian population that pays the price, hopefully this conflict can be resolved before any more lives are lost.
So much of the area is levelled, and Israel claim only 30% of Hamas fighters are gone?
How accurate are those figures?

Thats a good point but I doubt there's any way to be really sure yet.

[nzoomed]

With all the tunnels hamas built, it's quite plausible there is alot of their forces holding out there I guess.

[Lilith7]

With all the tunnels hamas built, it's quite plausible there is alot of their forces holding out there I guess.

And no doubt that's what concerns the Israelis, but given the situation its virtually impossiblel to be sure. 

An immediate & lengthy cease fire is perhaps that can be hoped for.

[nzoomed]

With all the tunnels hamas built, it's quite plausible there is alot of their forces holding out there I guess.

And no doubt that's what concerns the Israelis, but given the situation its virtually impossiblel to be sure. 

An immediate & lengthy cease fire is perhaps that can be hoped for.

Thats about the only solution I can see for the forseeable future.

[Lilith7]

Hamas says that any assault on Rafah would end talks.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/...ah-invaded

"Any Israeli ground offensive on Rafah will “blow up” the captive exchange negotiations, Al-Aqsa television channel quoted a senior Hamas leader as saying on Sunday.
The United Nations, the European Union, the United States and Arab nations are warning Israel not to go ahead with the planned offensive, saying it would cause a humanitarian catastrophe."


Some years ago, I read a book in which an idea to hasten peace talks was mentioned; it was so long ago that I can't recall the title or author but the idea has some value, despite being both unusual & bizarre - & I think it could work.
On the table in the room where peace talks are held, there should be placed the body of a child, killed in the conflict (in this case, two children one Palestinian & one Israeli) which will not be removed until a solution is reached.
The participants are only permitted to leave the room for toilet & refreshment breaks. The bodies will naturally deteriote, which should have the effect both of hastening peace talks & delivering a srong dose of consequences & reality....

[harm_less]

Caught this piece on Al Jazeera's The Stream last night. Roger Waters (from Pink Floyd) has always been clear on his political views and he definitely doesn't hold back in this interview.

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-st...ht-thing-2

[Lilith7]

Caught this piece on Al Jazeera's The Stream last night. Roger Waters (from Pink Floyd) has always been clear on his political views and he definitely doesn't hold back in this interview.

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-st...ht-thing-2

I'd agree with him to some extent because the Israeli govt is definitely Zionist & those ideas are behuind their actions, but at the same time it has to be acknowledged that many Israeli people do not agree with the actions of their govt & there have been protests there because of that.

And unfortunately the 'anti semite' label is used to try to stop protests against what Israel is doing.

[C_T_Russell]

Israel are taking the full opportunity of the situation to remove palestine from the region.
Their government is zionist and they fully intend to build a third temple.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Caught this piece on Al Jazeera's The Stream last night. Roger Waters (from Pink Floyd) has always been clear on his political views and he definitely doesn't hold back in this interview.

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-st...ht-thing-2

I'd agree with him to some extent because the Israeli govt is definitely Zionist & those ideas are behuind their actions, but at the same time it has to be acknowledged that many Israeli people do not agree with the actions of their govt & there have been protests there because of that.

And unfortunately the 'anti semite' label is used to try to stop protests against what Israel is doing.

Anti semite is an interesting term. Those who use it rarely understand that semite means any member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs. And which includes the very people the government of Israel is determined to wipe of the face of the planet, in a blatant repeat of the very history that led to the creation of their own state.

There is a particular kind of evil at work when a nations leadership chooses to remain blind to becoming the destroyer of its own peoples soul.

[zqwerty]

Looks as if their destiny may be set by their own built in inability to see that the original cause of the problem is the same as the course of action they are pursuing now.

By I tend to think that even though that may be so the cause now is that they have become implacable enemies that will never back down or "turn the other cheek" because it will be taken as a sign of weakness by the opposing side and thus the problem can never be erased except as Lilith7 says by education; but that is a forlorn hope as well, and so the cycle continues.

[Lilith7]

I'd agree with him to some extent because the Israeli govt is definitely Zionist & those ideas are behuind their actions, but at the same time it has to be acknowledged that many Israeli people do not agree with the actions of their govt & there have been protests there because of that.

And unfortunately the 'anti semite' label is used to try to stop protests against what Israel is doing.

Anti semite is an interesting term. Those who use it rarely understand that semite means any member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs. And which includes the very people the government of Israel is determined to wipe of the face of the planet, in a blatant repeat of the very history that led to the creation of their own state.

There is a particular kind of evil at work when a nations leadership chooses to remain blind to becoming the destroyer of its own peoples soul.

There's something deeply tragic in seeing people who've been so mercilessly persecuted themselves for so long, use the same persecution against others.

We learn nothing...

[C_T_Russell]

I'd agree with him to some extent because the Israeli govt is definitely Zionist & those ideas are behuind their actions, but at the same time it has to be acknowledged that many Israeli people do not agree with the actions of their govt & there have been protests there because of that.

And unfortunately the 'anti semite' label is used to try to stop protests against what Israel is doing.

Anti semite is an interesting term. Those who use it rarely understand that semite means any member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs. And which includes the very people the government of Israel is determined to wipe of the face of the planet, in a blatant repeat of the very history that led to the creation of their own state.

There is a particular kind of evil at work when a nations leadership chooses to remain blind to becoming the destroyer of its own peoples soul.

I really dont understand that term either, i see people calling the jews anti-semite and then i see people who call out jews as anti-semite.
So you have those who are in the pro-israel camp being called out as anti-semite and those who are pro-palestine being labelled that too.