Covid and autoimmune disease

[SueDonim]

It has long been known that there is an association between viruses and autoimmune disease onset (eg glandular fever and MS) so I check the literature from time to time out of personal interest because I have two albeit mild conditions already diagnosed, and a strong family history of others. I've been stable for very many years, but fear Covid greatly because of the risk of it setting off something new.

I have just seen this article "New-onset autoimmune disease after COVID-19" https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/imm...37406/full.

It's a formal medical article so pretty hard to read in depth, but the last paragraph says:
" In summary, several autoimmune diseases were more likely to be diagnosed within the first year after COVID-19 than in age- and sex-matched controls. The risk of new-onset autoimmune diseases after COVID-19 appears to be attenuated with the more recent Omicron strains. Positive ANA test is more common after COVID-19 and is predictive of incident autoimmune diseases. This suggests that SARS-CoV-2 may be a trigger for certain autoimmune diseases. Future work must focus on longer-term observational cohorts and should assess the persistence and predictive value of different measured autoantibodies. "

So it seems that the risk is reducing with the Omicron variants that now dominate. Which is great news. Although of course it's still better to avoid catching Covid if possible (and yes, I have had it and luckily it was mild, although it did leave me with some digestive issues that are slowly resolving. The vaccine did its job in ensuring that it wasn't worse).

[Oh_hunnihunni]

We are still advancing medical science and discovering old knowledge has some serious truths within it. Hedge witchery among old wives and gardeners has always felt comfortable with the idea of how our bodies and the environment work together. The ancient food is medicine idea is increasingly becoming mainstream, albeit with varying prescriptions for healthy regimes that seem to reflect fashion, and industry lobbying.

I cannot help understanding that when a population expands dramatically to dominate and overwhelm a previously diverse environment consequences follow as that environment tries to rebalance itself. Humanity has become an infestation, at the expense of multitudes of other lives, changing and degrading the planet that supports us, and seems reluctant to correct the situation by any real action at all, let alone those major moves that might help promote a return to equilibrium.

While individuals may make the considered choices that have positive benefits, the bigger picture means the individual fades out of focus when it comes to consequences.

Autoimmune diseases and conditions, cancers, environmental toxicity, wars that cause devastation, climate change that leads to famine and destruction, the increasing incidence of mental health issues, pressure on social systems and civility - all traceable back to overcrowding, to population pressures. To the human self interest that puts our species survival at risk, just as it has put so many others at risk, and then to extinction.

And there is no vaccine for that.

[zqwerty]

I think it goes like this, over a lifetime one builds up immunities by various means including catching what ever disease comes along and recovering from it and gaining immunity, likewise through interactions with aggravating stimuli one gets auto immune problems but one of the main effects of Covid is that after a bout of the disease in it's many forms one of the main features is that it wipes your immunity slate clear and all childhood immunities like measles and chickenpox for instance are lost, probably likewise with auto immunities, ie any resistances to damage through time are forgotten by the body system after a Covid infection and are then reset back to the original troubling condition.

Also remember that Covid is a disease that has been fine tuned by the most powerful immune system in the mammalian world ie bat immune systems; and as such has found many ways to usurp bats' immune systems and be beaten back again and also as a result can easily overcome our one, which is nowhere near the performance of the bat immune system, having never been tested by Covid before let alone competing for thousands of years.

Covid is very sophisticated and can find many chinks in our defensive armour, so to speak.

I like very much what you typed above this comment of mine Oh_hunnihunni and I agree with you completely.

Especially this bit:

"While individuals may make the considered choices that have positive benefits, the bigger picture means the individual fades out of focus when it comes to consequences.

Autoimmune diseases and conditions, cancers, environmental toxicity, wars that cause devastation, climate change that leads to famine and destruction, the increasing incidence of mental health issues, pressure on social systems and civility - all traceable back to overcrowding, to population pressures. To the human self interest that puts our species survival at risk, just as it has put so many others at risk, and then to extinction."

thank you so much , that is so very clearly put.

[SueDonim]

In very simple terms autoimmune disease is when the immune system is working overtime and attacks the healthy body instead of the infections it's meant to. It can attack pretty much any part of the body which is why there are so many vastly different disorders. The thing they all have in common is that it is the dbody attacking some part of itself.

Here's a link to some basic information https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000816.htm.

I fully agree with Oh_hunnihunni about overcrowding. We have know for generations that keeping animals in overcrowded conditions causes ill-health, but seem to have not learned that for ourselves.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

And yet we keep endeavouring to live longer, save lives, and make more of us. Fools that we are.

[zqwerty]

Try not being obsessive compulsive over cleaning your house and the things around you, also cut down on baths and hair washing.

Your immune system goes into overdrive when it has nothing to do because you are in a too clean environment, so having no jobs it becomes hypersensitive and attacks various parts of your body.

I have suffered with irritated skin, sinus problems, itchy eyes, rashes, all the usual problems of living in a too clean environment and depriving my immune system of things to do.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

There's truth in that too. A little of what you fancy does you good type thinking. Encountering small challenges teaches our immune system to respond better, but covid in any form is not a small challenge for the vulnerable.

[nzoomed]

I was reading an article recently about a link found between the black plague and autoimmune diseases we face today such as crohns disease.
Apparently the gene pool that survived had more active immune systems and the theory is that its over stimulated from the immune response to the plague.

[SueDonim]

I was reading an article recently about a link found between the black plague and autoimmune diseases we face today such as crohns disease.
Apparently the gene pool that survived had more active immune systems and the theory is that its over stimulated from the immune response to the plague.

That's interesting and reminded me of the fact that with the first SARS virus in 2003 one of the reasons it was so dangerous was that it turned people's own immune systems against them and killed the healthiest individuals rather than those who were old and inform.

I looked up the relationship between plague and autoimmunity and found there are a number of recent articles including this one:
Yersinia pestis and plague in the 21st century: learning from a distant past (https://portlandpress.com/biochemist/art...st-century). For me the key sentence was " having a very active immune system which might turn itself against us may represent the price that human populations paid for surviving plague".

[nzoomed]

That's interesting about SARS, I wonder how it compares genetically to COVID?
It almost seems like the virus is instructing the immune system to do that, unless it's just a result of the body's immune response to a novel virus?

[SueDonim]

The 2003 SARS virus was just called SARS-Cov or sometimes now SARS-Cov-1. The Covid-19 disease we have now is SARS-Cov-2. There is also a third one called MERS with a much higher mortality rate than even SARS but I think it has mainly stayed within the Mediterranean region.

This article is a good overview of all three but doesn't answer the genetic question:

SARS, MERS and CoVID-19: An overview and comparison of clinical, laboratory and radiological features https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8930171/. It's written from a medical perspective, but the Abstract and some of the paragraphs aren't too technical for laymen.

This one covers genes as well and in the abstract says that they aren't closely related genetically, then gives percentage overlaps. It also covers NEO-Cov which was the virus found in bats in 2022 that didn't spread to humans (yet).

Comparative highlights on MERS-CoV, SARS-CoV-1, SARS-CoV-2, and NEO-CoV https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9727256.

It's easy to use Google to search for articles and get medical results because there are any/many non-medical websites comparing the viruses like this. Which means you get good evidence-based information but a lack of plain English to help get real understanding at a layman level.