David Seymour

[Lilith7]

Features in this week's Listener cartoon....



https://www.facebook.com/nzlistener/phot...1534/?_rdr

[heisenberg]

Features in this week's Listener cartoon....



https://www.facebook.com/nzlistener/phot...1534/?_rdr

Doesnt matter what the result was theres plenty of people out there had enough of the treaty and will remember come voting time.

The clown show greens and partly maori partys antics should be a warning to anyone thinking of voting labour because they will come as a package.

[zqwerty]

Any one having problems with the Treaty should leave NZ then because Maori were here before as "people of the land" and have special privileges as such, and guaranteed by the Treaty.

This is Neo-Colonialism which Seymour et al are trying to reintroduce and they should be banished or prosecuted by either or any NZ Government which is in power as they are supposed to be the Guardians of the Treaty, which is sacred to all New Zealanders and gives citizens all the rights which they enjoy given by the Treaty between Maori and the Crown.

The refusal to accept the Treaty as written and its Historical authority should be made a crime with severe punishment as it is a deliberate attempt to stir up trouble between the races, a typical ploy by the neo-right to gain some advantage at any cost under the disguise of some ridiculous deception of claiming to be restoring fair play.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Parties.

And yes, coalitions win elections. I thought you knew that. But it's only okay when they do it?

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Any one having problems with the Treaty should leave NZ then because Maori were here before as "people of the land" and have special privileges as such, and guaranteed by the Treaty.

This is Neo-Colonialism which Seymour et al are trying to reintroduce and they should be banished or prosecuted by either or any NZ Government which is in power as they are supposed to be the Guardians of the Treaty, which is sacred to all New Zealanders and gives citizens all the rights which they enjoy given by the Treaty between Maori and the Crown.

The refusal to accept the Treaty as written and its Historical authority should be made a crime with severe punishment as it is a deliberate attempt to stir up trouble between the races, a typical ploy by the neo-right to gain some advantage at any cost under the disguise of some ridiculous deception of claiming to be restoring fair play.

Nahhhhh...

We are bigger than that.

[heisenberg]

Any one having problems with the Treaty should leave NZ then because Maori were here before as "people of the land" and have special privileges as such, and guaranteed by the Treaty.

so special they are still being discovered, whats next, free EVs for all maori because it was in the treaty? maori get a few perks that others don't and the latest from the partly maori party wanting super 7 to 10 years earlier is just another step down the apartheid track.

[king1]

Any one having problems with the Treaty should leave NZ then because Maori were here before as "people of the land" and have special privileges as such, and guaranteed by the Treaty.

maori get a few perks that others don't and the latest from the partly maori party wanting super 7 to 10 years earlier is just another step down the apartheid track.

Why are you even giving that one any oxygen, it will never get off the ground - much like Seymours Treaty Principles Bill.   Sometimes these things just have to go through the process...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

The super thing reflects a statistical truth. Maori live shorter lives than other social groups. Men do too, in comparison with women. As do married people v singles depending on gender... But maybe instead of making it just a Maori thing we should target super better, so that the scheme provides that safety net in later life for those who need it rather than universally. And is there for longer instead of the uncertainty we face now with the changing age related demographics we can't avoid.

Most things the Maori party are fighting for have a strong argument behind them, we could do a hell of a lot better for some sectors of our community, we have a unbalanced wealth distribution system, we have poor geographical and social coverage in our health system, and our education sector could be world leading again if we wanted it to be - if we had political leadership that focused on social needs rather than grandstanding on ideological differences. Or some MPs fading career ambitions...

One thing though, I am intrigued by the 'perks' idea. The ones they get that others don't. What are those exactly?

[Praktica]

Any one having problems with the Treaty should leave NZ then because Maori were here before as "people of the land" and have special privileges as such, and guaranteed by the Treaty.

so special they are still being discovered, whats next, free EVs for all maori because it was in the treaty? maori get a few perks that others don't and the latest from the partly maori party wanting super 7 to 10 years earlier is just another step down the apartheid track.

Well, I was uncertain about you, heisenberg. Now I'm not - the cat is dead, eh?

[zqwerty]

The right wing are always shit stirring, it's so annoying at times especially when it is about things that are long past arguing about.

[Lilith7]

The super thing reflects a statistical truth. Maori live shorter lives than other social groups. Men do too, in comparison with women. As do married people v singles depending on gender... But maybe instead of making it just a Maori thing we should target super better, so that the scheme provides that safety net in later life for those who need it rather than universally. And is there for longer instead of the uncertainty we face now with the changing age related demographics we can't avoid.

Most things the Maori party are fighting for have a strong argument behind them, we could do a hell of a lot better for some sectors of our community, we have a unbalanced wealth distribution system, we have poor geographical and social coverage in our health system, and our education sector could be world leading again if we wanted it to be - if we had political leadership that focused on social needs rather than grandstanding on ideological differences. Or some MPs fading career ambitions...

One thing though, I am intrigued by the 'perks' idea. The ones they get that others don't.  What are those exactly?

Oh, the usual things.

Shorter life span. 
Higher rate of canccer.
Higher rate of diabetes.
Higher rate of imprisonment.
Less likely to have higher education.

[heisenberg]

Oh_hunnihunni

Oh, the usual things.

Shorter life span. 
Higher rate of canccer.
Higher rate of diabetes.
Higher rate of imprisonment.
Less likely to have higher education.

obviously because of colonisation what was maori lifespan pre european?

 the rest are self inflicted

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heisenberg
so special they are still being discovered, whats next, free EVs for all maori because it was in the treaty? maori get a few perks that others don't and the latest from the partly maori party wanting super 7 to 10 years earlier is just another step down the apartheid track.

Well, I was uncertain about you, heisenberg. Now I'm not - the cat is dead, eh?

cats are the work of the devil, only good cat is a dead cat

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Oh dear! So much wrong in so few words.

[heisenberg]

Oh dear! So much wrong in so few words.

go on then enlighten me

[Lilith7]

Oh dear! So much wrong in so few words.

But its so much easoer to point the finger at those being affected & sing that much loved (& ever so predictable) old refrain'It's all their own fault'...

[Praktica]

Oh dear! So much wrong in so few words.

go on then enlighten me

You're taking your life in your hands, dissing cats like that, here...

[heisenberg]

Oh dear! So much wrong in so few words.

But its so much easoer to point the finger at those being affected & sing that much loved (& ever so predictable) old refrain'It's all their own fault'...

eating, drinking, smoking themselves to death is their choice

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Really? Sure, I believe everything we do is a choice too. Sometimes a really hard one, even an impossible one... but the truth is circumstances influence and shape our choices. Our childhood conditioning shapes our choices. Our cultures, religions, social status - politics - shape our choices. Our gender shapes our choices, education, aspirations, and certainly our economic circumstances shape our choices. Caviar? Or sardines...

Impoverished people die earlier, have poorer health outcomes, different educational achievements, different employment opportunities, different housing, different life choices.

Your attitude to other people is a choice. Ever wondered why you make those choices? And why other intelligent, well educated, life experienced, - not to mention exceedingly good looking people obviously make very different choices?

Wink, wink...

[harm_less]

But its so much easoer to point the finger at those being affected & sing that much loved (& ever so predictable) old refrain'It's all their own fault'...

eating, drinking, smoking themselves to death is their choice

If that is the case the solution is to tax cigarettes, alcohol, junk food and sugary drinks into oblivion, but I don't see a government with enough spine to take those measures any time soon. FGS our current government has seen fit to neuter the smoke free legislation so a forlorn hope it would appear.

But then if the causal issues weren't available do you really think that our population, and health system, would be fine and dandy? Really!?? Humans have a strong drive to sidestep personal responsibility so I very much doubt it, and skin colour isn't a governing factor in that. More than enough obese, chronically unhealthy and/or incarcerated white folks to prove that point.

[heisenberg]

eating, drinking, smoking themselves to death is their choice

 More than enough obese, chronically unhealthy and/or incarcerated white folks to prove that point.

sure there is but they arnt wanting super at 55

[Lilith7]

But its so much easoer to point the finger at those being affected & sing that much loved (& ever so predictable) old refrain'It's all their own fault'...

eating, drinking, smoking themselves to death is their choice

Addiction is not a 'choice'. It is an illness.

And eating cheap,bad quality food is what happens when people have insufficent money & education on healthy food ,to be able to buy healthy food.

https://iuhealth.org/thrive/is-addiction...-a-disease

https://www.foodethicscouncil.org/theme/food-poverty/

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eating, drinking, smoking themselves to death is their choice

If that is the case the solution is to tax cigarettes, alcohol, junk food and sugary drinks into oblivion, but I don't see a government with enough spine to take those measures any time soon. FGS our current government has seen fit to neuter the smoke free legislation so a forlorn hope it would appear.

But then if the causal issues weren't available do you really think that our population, and health system, would be fine and dandy? Really!?? Humans have a strong drive to sidestep personal responsibility so I very much doubt it, and skin colour isn't a governing factor in that. More than enough obese, chronically unhealthy and/or incarcerated white folks to prove that point.

Yet oddly, prior to Neo Liberalism, these eating problems weren't so prevalent.

 Easily available, cheap rubbish food coupled with low wages, longer working hours hasn't helped. And too, there are no longer education on cooking skills in schools, so some people won't have those skills to the same extent.