The "tough on crime" nonsense

[Lilith7]

Every so often one of our delightful govts will decide to 'get tough' on crime, & bring ever harsher penalties. Generally it does gain votes; no one likes crime & no one wants more of it.

And yet statistics show that, by voting foe those harsher penalties, that is exactly what they're voting for. And really, you'd expect politicians of all stripes to be aware of that since surely a part of their job is to check these things.

So in voting for  yet harsher penalties, either those politicians are deeply ignorant - or they're not averse to potentially ruining lives in order to appear 'tough on crime' in order to gain support.

I think its high time that we set about educating high schools pupils & Uni students about the effects of harsher penalties.




https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2023/...recidivism.



"As someone who works in the criminal justice sector, the recent policy proposals by major political parties make we wonder whether politicians are more concerned about appearing hard on crime than they are with reducing criminal offending.
This long-standing punitive approach to crime withstands the plethora of evidence and research that disproves its effectiveness for reducing re-offending. On the contrary, criminal justice experts and statisticians have consistently said harsher sentencing increases recidivism".

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I am in two minds about the coward punch thing. It is such a heinous thing to do to another person.

[Lilith7]

I am in two minds about the coward punch thing. It is such a heinous thing to do to another person.

Absolutely agree - we can be idiots at any age & as the Dunedin study showed, up till the mid twenties, our brains aren't fully functioning..

[heisenberg]

well labours soft on crime nonsense didnt work did it, lets hear your solution

[Praktica]

well labours soft on crime nonsense didnt work did it, lets hear your solution

Did they have one? Please show us where.

[Lilith7]

well labours soft on crime nonsense didnt work did it, lets hear your solution

While its unlikely that crime will stop altogether, we can & should be doing all we possibly can to minimise it.

 A fairer society where no one struggles to keep food on the table & a roof over their heads. You know, where people are paid a wage which is sufficient to actually live on.

And where kids are taught parenting skills & basic budgeting, cooking & gardening.

And where the general population understands the causes of crime because every person has access to free education (& healthcare) throughout their lives & so can comprehend the causes & understand that harsher penalties lead to more crime rather than reducing it.

And in addition they'll also understand that politicians of every stripe tend to start banging that old 'get tough on crime' drum whenever there's a drop in the popularity of govt or an election's within cooee....

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I think we need forensic mental hospitals that are secure facilities for the long term treatment of really broken people. And alongside, I think we need rehabilitation institutions for re educating people who need help to become happy productive citizens.

It works in other countries, why not here? Enough of punishment. More education. More treatment. More therapy. More identification of the causes, more elimination of those, rather than the futures of the people those factors create.

[Agent_24]

well labours soft on crime nonsense didnt work did it, lets hear your solution

What's your measurement for "it didn't work"? Where's your data?

Were you expecting all crime to magically vanish overnight? Social change takes time.

If you start working on the root causes of the problem, then things will gradually get better, as exampled below:

I think we need forensic mental hospitals that are secure facilities for the long term treatment of really broken people. And alongside, I think we need rehabilitation institutions for re educating people who need help to become happy productive citizens.

It works in other countries, why not here? Enough of punishment. More education. More treatment. More therapy. More identification of the causes, more elimination of those, rather than the futures of the people those factors create.

Exactly. Crime is a symptom of a deeper problem. Healthy, happy, and financially secure people don't turn to crime, because they don't need to.

You don't help people by throwing them in prison and punishing them for the smallest thing.
All that does is drive resentment towards "the system" and pushes the person further away from healthy society.

Yes, some people do terrible things and deserve punishment, but often, especially for petty crime, what they need most is help.

[Lilith7]

I think we need forensic mental hospitals that are secure facilities for the long term treatment of really broken people. And alongside, I think we need rehabilitation institutions for re educating people who need help to become happy productive citizens.

It works in other countries, why not here? Enough of punishment. More education. More treatment. More therapy. More identification of the causes, more elimination of those, rather than the futures of the people those factors create.

That's exactly what we should be doing - looking at other countries & see what works & then set it up here. Adapted slightly if need be. And yes, there will always be some people so damaged that they must be kept away from society for their & our good.

Norway now has Europe's lowest recividist rate; the emphasis is on rehabilitation & restorative justice, considered radical by some but nonetheless it works well.
 Prior to their reforms, the rate of recidivism was 60-70%. Its now 20%.


https://www.firststepalliance.org/post/n...ism%20rate.

---

Incidentally I'm presently reading Trent Dalton's By sea & stars, the first fleet, about convicts sent to Australia.

I hadn't realised such cruelty was involved in who was sent but it included a nine year old boy & a woman in her 80's who managed to suicide once in Australia.

Not the best way to cope with crime...

https://goodreadingmagazine.com.au/title...sea-stars/

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Children were regarded very differently back then, more as undersized adults than still developing offspring...

[Lilith7]

Children were regarded very differently back then, more as undersized adults than still developing offspring...

We have at least learned a bit better in that regard.

If we can manage that then surely we can also learn more about crime & its causes, & eventually, perhaps fix them.