NZ will not recognise Palestinian statehood

[harm_less]

I'm not surprised at this in light of the amount of delaying and dithering we've seen coming from our government. While I can see how Winston has justified thin I can't help but feel that our government has wimped out big time by not using this as a demonstration of our extreme displeasure with Israel's ongoing genocidal campaign against the co-inhabitants of their region. Yet another case of NZ's policy  being dictated by the junior coalition partners as spineless Luxon sits back and lets them do whatever TF they want.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/574...-announces

[heisenberg]

I'm not surprised at this in light of the amount of delaying and dithering we've seen coming from our government. While I can see how Winston has justified thin I can't help but feel that our government has wimped out big time by not using this as a demonstration of our extreme displeasure with Israel's ongoing genocidal campaign against the co-inhabitants of their region. Yet another case of NZ's policy  being dictated by the junior coalition partners as spineless Luxon sits back and lets them do whatever TF they want.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/574...-announces

good

if winston was wimping out he would have been like the other sheep

get rid of hamas and return the hostages

[harm_less]

I'm not surprised at this in light of the amount of delaying and dithering we've seen coming from our government. While I can see how Winston has justified thin I can't help but feel that our government has wimped out big time by not using this as a demonstration of our extreme displeasure with Israel's ongoing genocidal campaign against the co-inhabitants of their region. Yet another case of NZ's policy  being dictated by the junior coalition partners as spineless Luxon sits back and lets them do whatever TF they want.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/574...-announces

good

if winston was wimping out he would have been like the other sheep

get rid of hamas and return the hostages

So you think that this is still about return of hostages? That boat sailed long ago but is still being claimed by Netanyahu as the reason for his genocide and thereby as a distraction from the war crimes charges levelled against him.

[king1]

good

if winston was wimping out he would have been like the other sheep

get rid of hamas and return the hostages

So you think that this is still about return of hostages? That boat sailed long ago but is still being claimed by Netanyahu as the reason for his genocide and thereby as a distraction from the war crimes charges levelled against him.

not to mention the corruption charges that have been in the works for years, nothing says asshole  like keeping a country at war to avoid having to face charges...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I have never, till now, been ashamed of my country. We are one of the very few who have taken this position. If Winston really wanted the violence to stop he should have supported the state of Palestine, not the genocidal leadership of Israel, who are the most violent party in this and other conflicts.

Shameful decision. One term government.

---

good

if winston was wimping out he would have been like the other sheep

get rid of hamas and return the hostages

So you think that this is still about return of hostages? That boat sailed long ago but is still being claimed by Netanyahu as the reason for his genocide and thereby as a distraction from the war crimes charges levelled against him.

There are thousands of Palestinian hostages in Israeli prisons, including children. Howabout returning them?

Netanyahu claims victimhood  while he initiates violent assaults on his neighbours. Netanyahu claims anti semitism, but he is not a semite, like most Israelis he is of european stock. He is an evil colonising war crininal, and he will be delighted by Winston's choice.

[harm_less]

I have never, till now, been ashamed of my country. We are one of the very few who have taken this position. If Winston really wanted the violence to stop he should have supported the state of Palestine, not the genocidal leadership of Israel, who are the most violent party in this and other conflicts.

Shameful decision. One term government.

---

So you think that this is still about return of hostages? That boat sailed long ago but is still being claimed by Netanyahu as the reason for his genocide and thereby as a distraction from the war crimes charges levelled against him.

There are thousands of Palestinian hostages in Israeli prisons, including children. Howabout returning them?

Netanyahu claims victimhood  while he initiates violent assaults on his neighbours. Netanyahu claims anti semitism, but he is not a semite, like most Israelis he is of european stock. He is an evil colonising war crininal, and he will be delighted by Winston's choice.

This should be worth watching, livestream at 3:30. Pat and the crew at BHN don't hold back on their contempt for the actions of our government.

[heisenberg]

i wonder why Egypt doesnt open the border and let them in, do you think its something to do with not wanting Hamas to set up there? i dont see why seeing as they are just peace loving victim’s

[Lilith7]

I have never, till now, been ashamed of my country. We are one of the very few who have taken this position. If Winston really wanted the violence to stop he should have supported the state of Palestine, not the genocidal leadership of Israel, who are the most violent party in this and other conflicts.

Shameful decision. One term government.

---

So you think that this is still about return of hostages? That boat sailed long ago but is still being claimed by Netanyahu as the reason for his genocide and thereby as a distraction from the war crimes charges levelled against him.

There are thousands of Palestinian hostages in Israeli prisons, including children. Howabout returning them?

Netanyahu claims victimhood  while he initiates violent assaults on his neighbours. Netanyahu claims anti semitism, but he is not a semite, like most Israelis he is of european stock. He is an evil colonising war crininal, and he will be delighted by Winston's choice.

No blardy wonder Winnie kept schtum.

"Counter productive" my derriere. I wonder exactly whose ' donation' led to this.

Miserable gutless wonders; ignoring children being deliberately starved to death, hospitals being bombed, entire neighbourhoods being levelled.
Netanyahu is a nazi.

He's very clearly learned from the actions of nazis in the Warsaw ghetto during WW2 & isn't above using the very same cruel tactics.

He & his govt should be immediately arrested together with the Hamas leaders & stand trial for war crimes, with a view to the penalty being life imprisonment for the lot of them.
Let the peace groups made up of both Israelis & Palestinians, work together for a two state solution, with Israel paying for the rebuilding.

[harm_less]

https://www.youtube.com/live/9-sDoJ3e5do BHN livestream

[Lilith7]

The 'wrong time' my derriere. Too scared to annoy America I suspect.


Oppositiom parties say govt on wrong side.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/574...arties-say

"We would not be pressured & they recognised that"

Really Winnie, did they? Or did they see this country being afraid of annoying America?

[Oh_hunnihunni]

i wonder why Egypt doesnt open the border and let them in, do you think its something to do with not wanting Hamas to set up there? i dont see why seeing as they are just peace loving victim’s

Possibly because Egypt already has a huge and under resourced population, including large refugee camps. And why should it offer sanctuary to a population that doesn't want to be there anymore than Egypt wishes to host it? It has its own lands, stolen lands, why should Israel be supported in driving them off their own property? Their own cities? Their own farms?

As for peace loving victims, of course they are not peace loving. They are fighting an occupying force  one much better resourced that Hamas could ever be. In their place would you be a fighter? Or just move to Egypt to live in a tent?

Good heavens man, use your brains.  Hamas is a response to the terrorism inflicted on Palestine. Not the cause of it. If you want proof look up the numbers, try Palestinian dead v Israeli dead, and tell me who are driving this conflict.

[C_T_Russell]

I'm not surprised at this in light of the amount of delaying and dithering we've seen coming from our government. While I can see how Winston has justified thin I can't help but feel that our government has wimped out big time by not using this as a demonstration of our extreme displeasure with Israel's ongoing genocidal campaign against the co-inhabitants of their region. Yet another case of NZ's policy  being dictated by the junior coalition partners as spineless Luxon sits back and lets them do whatever TF they want.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/574...-announces

good

if winston was wimping out he would have been like the other sheep

get rid of hamas and return the hostages

+1000%
Palestine is a terrorist state, occupying the land of Israel.
Anyone who supports Hamas is a Nazi, and is backing the murder of Jews.
The Palestinians elected Hamas, they asked for this.
If they are surprised that putting Hamas into power would result in this situation then I dont know what to say.
Im sure there are some good hearted Palestinians who didnt vote Hamas and I feel for them, but if they were smart, I expect they would have fled Gaza.
But im totally happy with our governments decision, it was the right one and its good they did not bend over to international pressure from the left.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

CT. You are misinformed. Palestine existed long before Israel was created by the allies on the British Mandate of Palestine , which resulted in the 1948 Nakba, or expulsion of the semite population, in favour of European immigrant Jews who were promised a homeland, because of the collective guilt of the Western Allies.

Hamas was formed in 1987 as a result of the first uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood, fighting for the return of stolen lands and the right to control their own destiny.

Look it up. Don't just swallow the lies you are being told. It is time this massive injustice was put right.

[harm_less]

+1000%
Palestine is a terrorist state, occupying the land of Israel.
Anyone who supports Hamas is a Nazi, and is backing the murder of Jews.
The Palestinians elected Hamas, they asked for this.
If they are surprised that putting Hamas into power would result in this situation then I dont know what to say.
Im sure there are some good hearted Palestinians who didnt vote Hamas and I feel for them, but if they were smart, I expect they would have fled Gaza.
But im totally happy with our governments decision, it was the right one and its good they did not bend over to international pressure from the left.

Israel is a genocidal regime participating in numerous illegal activities that are regarded as war crimes.
Netanyahu is conducting activities that Jews should, and many Israeli's cases, are abhorred by decent society. As a population previously persecuted by Nazi genocide they more than anyone should know far better.
The Israeli's for many years have persecuted and abused the Palestinians who are the long established population of the lands Israel intent to take by force.
If you poke a dog with a stick for long enough and abusively enough it will eventually bite you. That is the basis of the Hamas lead attack on Israelis that initiated the current crisis. Considering Israel's conduct prior to that it was bound to happen, and for good reason.
There are many Israelis who are disgusted by Netanyahu's genocidal actions against the Palestinians as this isn't a religious strategy so much as a Zionist cleansing drawing on whatever Netanyahu's excuse of the day is.
Winston and Seymour have lead limp Luxon on this initiative which is considered by very many NZers to be an international embarrassment to our reputation as a world leading nation with previously impeccable ideologies.
The decision aired by Winston today at the UN has more to do with kowtowing to the US and as such can more actually be regarded as actually bowing to international pressure, but in the view of most Western nations corrupt pressures.

I don't expect a reasoned or prompt response to this considering CT's usual MO of 'throwing stones on the roof and then running away'.

[C_T_Russell]

CT. You are misinformed. Palestine existed long before Israel was created by the allies on the British Mandate of Palestine , which resulted in the 1948 Nakba, or expulsion of the semite population, in favour of European immigrant Jews who were promised a homeland, because of the collective guilt of the Western Allies.

Hamas was formed in 1987 as a result of the first uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood, fighting for the return of stolen lands and the right to control their own destiny.

Look it up. Don't just swallow the lies you are being told. It is time this massive injustice was put right.

Since when? In Bible times it was Israel, seems they must have kicked the Jews out some time  afterwards.

[king1]

CT. You are misinformed. Palestine existed long before Israel was created by the allies on the British Mandate of Palestine , which resulted in the 1948 Nakba, or expulsion of the semite population, in favour of European immigrant Jews who were promised a homeland, because of the collective guilt of the Western Allies.

Hamas was formed in 1987 as a result of the first uprising by the Muslim Brotherhood, fighting for the return of stolen lands and the right to control their own destiny.

Look it up. Don't just swallow the lies you are being told. It is time this massive injustice was put right.

Since when? In Bible times it was Israel, seems they must have kicked the Jews out some time  afterwards.

there wasn't really an israel prior to WW2, the original Kingdom of Israel in the Bible hadn't been around for centuries

[C_T_Russell]

Since when? In Bible times it was Israel, seems they must have kicked the Jews out some time  afterwards.

there wasn't really an israel prior to WW2, the original Kingdom of Israel in the Bible hadn't been around for centuries

 seems to have been a gradual thing, according to google:


Roman Period (132–136 CE): Following the Bar Kokhba revolt, Roman forces engaged in widespread displacement and enslavement of Jews, leaving Judea in a state of desolation.

The Crusades: During the Crusades (1099-1190), Jews faced persecution and clashes with Crusaders.

Khwarezmian Tartar Sack (1244): Khwarezmian Tartars decimated the Jewish population and drove them out of Jerusalem in 1244.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamiza..._Jerusalem

It appears the romans renamed the place Palestine early on, needless to say it originally belonged to the jews, sure one could argue that they took it from the cannanites if you want to go down that rabbit hole, but the Israelites at the time were essentially just a tribe of their descendants that broke away.
https://echoesandreflections.org/wp-cont...el.pdf.pdf

[Oh_hunnihunni]

CT, the Bible is a collection of letters, accounts, made up stories, reminiscences, and histories put together by a series of predominantly white western guys for reasons of their own...

A bit like wikipedia for that matter.

Facts though are a different matter. Dates. Numbers. Realities. Like the fact there are more Jews living peacefully and without threat outside Israel than live inside. Like the fact the population of Israel is predominantly of immigrant ethnic European stock and not of semite ethnicity. Like the fact that since the establishment of Israel ethnic semites have been driven off the lands they and their families occupied and farmed for generations without compensation and without anywhere else to go. Like the fact that the numbers of dead as a result of this conflict are completely unbalanced, and continue to be unbalanced, while the leadership of Israel still claims to be acting defensively rather than in aggression.

It's not a rabbit hole. It is however an ongoing tragedy that rises directly from the catastrophe that was the Holocaust, and the misguided but very human attempts to repair the generational trauma that event placed upon one group in particular.

Most of the international community want the conflict to stop. The killings to stop. The razing of Gaza and the ongoing forcible and illegal occupation of more stolen lands to stop. And genuine negotiations towards the establishment of a new order, a new peace, that safeguards two states - Israel AND Palestine to take place.

The reality is it isn't the populations, the people, who are paying the ultimate price in this conflict who are responsible for its continuance. It is a few rabid leaders determined to prolong it despite increasing opposition. Just as the Holocaust was the responsibility of war criminals, so too is this horror.

And that is why human beings from vastly diverse backgrounds all over the planet want it to stop.

[heisenberg]

hamas shouldnt have attacked the concert and killed all those civilians then eh, mind you they got what they wanted

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Oh, well maybe the Brits et al shouldn't have plonked a homeland for European Jews in the middle of Palestinian territory...

But they did.

And now we all need to fix the mess.