disinformation

[harm_less]

I get where you're coming from Yogi, but I can't see how subdividing the family farm into what are essentially unproductive (or far less productive) little blocks is logically consistent with what you want to happen. It's unlikely these blocks will ever join back up (T-1000 style), so you've taken your own little steps to destroying farming. Well done?

There's an element of jest there, so don't be offended.

Must scoot, got a few loads of dead pine to haul. Would be nice to have a trailer but I guess today is going to be an arm day. I am the Weediest He-Man.

Subdivision of rural properties is where the economics of farming and residental collide. When I was involved in the avocado industry about 20 years back the Industry Council identified subdivision of orchards as one of the greatest barriers to incresing productivity. Not in the loss of critical economies of scale as properties shrunk but in the resistance of existing large orchard owners to increase per hectare tonnages because the land was increasing in value at a greater rate than they could expect from increasing inputs and efforts. In other words more tempting to cash up and move on than put in the extra work.

[Yogi]

I get where you're coming from Yogi, but I can't see how subdividing the family farm into what are essentially unproductive (or far less productive) little blocks is logically consistent with what you want to happen. It's unlikely these blocks will ever join back up (T-1000 style), so you've taken your own little steps to destroying farming. Well done?

There's an element of jest there, so don't be offended.

Must scoot, got a few loads of dead pine to haul. Would be nice to have a trailer but I guess today is going to be an arm day. I am the Weediest He-Man.

Staying farming until the money is all gone was not an option. I still have a dairy farm but not for much longer. With $9 payout this year it is worth it however any less than $8 and i will quit the cows. I will never milk cows again at a loss. I would have loved for another generation to take the farm on however it is simply not possible with current rules and regulations. My farm for example will need to spend $250,000 just on effluent disposal even though my water testing says the current system is working well within the limits. I am simply not doing it any more.

[Lilith7]

Rumour has it the Taxpayers Union is behind these ' farmers' protests. True? Or more fake news?

If they're involved then that indicates links to the right politically & perhaps even the National party. Jordan Williams was deeply involved in the Dirty politics group.

I hope they're not behind this, the spreading of misinformation & what might perhaps be deliberate undermining of this govt during a pandemic. These aren't people with a high regard for democracy.

[Yogi]

Rumour has it the Taxpayers Union is behind these ' farmers' protests. True? Or more fake news?

If they're involved then that indicates links to the right politically & perhaps even the National party. Jordan Williams was deeply involved in the Dirty politics group.

I hope they're not behind this, the spreading of misinformation & what might perhaps be deliberate undermining of this govt during a pandemic. These aren't people with a high regard for democracy.

The taxpayer union is independent of government. They sure did not help National when they were in power. 
Great conspiracy.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Hmmm, sometimes though these rumours are based on fact...

[Yogi]

Hmmm, sometimes though these rumours are based on fact...

Yea had not heard it myself.
I would imagine the taxpayer union has an opinion with the government bringing in so many damaging rules and regulations.

[Lilith7]

If they're involved then that indicates links to the right politically & perhaps even the National party. Jordan Williams was deeply involved in the Dirty politics group.

I hope they're not behind this, the spreading of misinformation & what might perhaps be deliberate undermining of this govt during a pandemic. These aren't people with a high regard for democracy.

The taxpayer union is independent of government. They sure did not help National when they were in power. 
Great conspiracy.

Jordan Williams.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic...n-williams

"It was as a legal adviser that Williams met WhaleOil blogger and Dirty Politics lead actor Cameron Slater. They became friends."




https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/cri-du-coeur

"Whatever the wider implications, the book has had a profound effect on me, personally. Something that doesn’t come across in the news coverage about Dirty Politics, and Cameron Slater, Jason Ede, Jordan Williams, Simon Lusk et al is just how fucking awful these people are. 

[i]They spend their lives trying to poison and contaminate our politics. They enjoy seeing people suffer. They get excited by the idea of breaking up the marriages of their political enemies and ruining their lives.[/i]

Or is it when Jordan Williams, the Executive Director of the "Taxpayers' Union" – a role he holds while also still ghost-writing posts on Whale Oil using Taxpayers' Union material to attack the Labour Party (p. 104, f/n 30) – and an admitted barrister and solicitor of the High Court of New Zealand, enquires of Cameron Slater:

Any convicted child rapists among that labour party membership list [that Slater had taken from Labour's website, knowing it to be private material]? Let's start googling. (p. 72)
Or is it when this same Jordan Williams responds to the news in July 2011 (less than six months after some 185 people died in Christchurch) that one of the members of his anti-MMP group has resigned by stating:
[A]n earthquake right now would be good. (p. 72)"

[Yogi]

The taxpayer union is independent of government. They sure did not help National when they were in power. 
Great conspiracy.

Jordan Williams.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic...n-williams

"It was as a legal adviser that Williams met WhaleOil blogger and Dirty Politics lead actor Cameron Slater. They became friends."




https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/cri-du-coeur

"Whatever the wider implications, the book has had a profound effect on me, personally. Something that doesn’t come across in the news coverage about Dirty Politics, and Cameron Slater, Jason Ede, Jordan Williams, Simon Lusk et al is just how fucking awful these people are. 

[i]They spend their lives trying to poison and contaminate our politics. They enjoy seeing people suffer. They get excited by the idea of breaking up the marriages of their political enemies and ruining their lives.[/i]

Or is it when Jordan Williams, the Executive Director of the "Taxpayers' Union" – a role he holds while also still ghost-writing posts on Whale Oil using Taxpayers' Union material to attack the Labour Party (p. 104, f/n 30) – and an admitted barrister and solicitor of the High Court of New Zealand, enquires of Cameron Slater:

Any convicted child rapists among that labour party membership list [that Slater had taken from Labour's website, knowing it to be private material]? Let's start googling. (p. 72)
Or is it when this same Jordan Williams responds to the news in July 2011 (less than six months after some 185 people died in Christchurch) that one of the members of his anti-MMP group has resigned by stating:
[A]n earthquake right now would be good. (p. 72)"

Looks like a good guy to run such an organization. Just as Jacinda was the right person to be president of the international socialist youth organization.
Does their past reflect the current position they hold? Some mud does stick i know.

[Praktica]

Your definition of "good", yogi, seems skewed to "agrees with my opinion", rather than with the moral judgement that most associate with the word.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I am very socialist leaning. And quite proud of it. Doesn't have to be a negative thing.

[Lilith7]

Jordan Williams.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic...n-williams

"It was as a legal adviser that Williams met WhaleOil blogger and Dirty Politics lead actor Cameron Slater. They became friends."




https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/cri-du-coeur

"Whatever the wider implications, the book has had a profound effect on me, personally. Something that doesn’t come across in the news coverage about Dirty Politics, and Cameron Slater, Jason Ede, Jordan Williams, Simon Lusk et al is just how fucking awful these people are. 

[i]They spend their lives trying to poison and contaminate our politics. They enjoy seeing people suffer. They get excited by the idea of breaking up the marriages of their political enemies and ruining their lives.[/i]

Or is it when Jordan Williams, the Executive Director of the "Taxpayers' Union" – a role he holds while also still ghost-writing posts on Whale Oil using Taxpayers' Union material to attack the Labour Party (p. 104, f/n 30) – and an admitted barrister and solicitor of the High Court of New Zealand, enquires of Cameron Slater:

Any convicted child rapists among that labour party membership list [that Slater had taken from Labour's website, knowing it to be private material]? Let's start googling. (p. 72)
Or is it when this same Jordan Williams responds to the news in July 2011 (less than six months after some 185 people died in Christchurch) that one of the members of his anti-MMP group has resigned by stating:
[A]n earthquake right now would be good. (p. 72)"

Looks like a good guy to run such an organization. Just as Jacinda was the right person to be president of the international socialist youth organization.
Does their past reflect the current position they hold? Some mud does stick i know.



I think the point is that he had & still has, associations with the right, in particular the National party. And its well known that Judith Collins is a long time friend of Cameron Slater, AKA Whaleoil, who was also deeply involved in Dirty politics.

[Yogi]

I am very socialist leaning. And quite proud of it. Doesn't have to be a negative thing.

I am also i guess socialist thinking as well given i support helping those who strike hard times, having good funded healthcare etc. 
It is the extremist socialist i will never identify with or extreme anything for that matter.

---

Your definition of "good", yogi, seems skewed to "agrees with my opinion", rather than with the moral judgement that most associate with the word.

I do not disagree with everything you say.
That would just be ignorant.

[Lilith7]

Found it! I knew there was a quote somewhere about 'socialism' - took a while, but i found it.


“Socialism is a scare word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.
 
Socialism is what they called public power. Socialism is what they called social security.
 
Socialism is what they called farm price supports.
 
Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance.
 
Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations.
 
Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.”

Harry S Truman

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Yup. That's me. I support helping people. After all, I have been helped, all the way through my life, I wouldn't be here without that help.

The idea of the self made person is just a lie. It ignores the reality of the social nature of our species. No one does things alone. Not ever.

[harm_less]

Found it! I knew there was a quote somewhere about 'socialism' - took a while, but i found it.


“Socialism is a scare word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.
 
Socialism is what they called public power. Socialism is what they called social security.
 
Socialism is what they called farm price supports.
 
Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance.
 
Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations.
 
Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.”

Harry S Truman

Not surprising considering socialism and society share the same origin.

[Lilith7]

Found it! I knew there was a quote somewhere about 'socialism' - took a while, but i found it.


“Socialism is a scare word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.
 
Socialism is what they called public power. Socialism is what they called social security.
 
Socialism is what they called farm price supports.
 
Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance.
 
Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations.
 
Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.”

Harry S Truman

Not surprising considering socialism and society share the same origin.

 Yes - I've always found it interesting too, that those mainly Nordic countries which have very high taxes also tend to have people who come out top on those 'happiest people' surveys. I suspect that the removal of the stress of needing to provide education, healthcare, etc etc for families might have something to do with that.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

They are also the more highly educated countries...

---

This is interesting...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming...t-movement

[Wainuiguy]

While Groundswell may have some valid points, to be protesting when this country is struggling to cope with a pandemic was never going to be a good look.

And if the racist comments aren't swiftly stamped out, together with the childish claims of a 'communist PM' then that well may damage any credibility they might have.

Hmmm yet I recall all the applause for BLM protests last year, also right in the middle of the pandemic.  So that protest  fine but this one "not a good look".

[Praktica]

   

I searched here for "BLM", and these were the hits I had. There was no praise to be seen - you must be thinking of somewhere else.

[yousnoozeyoulose]

TBH, don't really remember the BLM protests but no doubt the majority of the country sighed and mumbled something about it being a super spreader event.

Today I was amused by the irony in farmers not wanting to be told what to do, but Groundswell asking that they only display approved signs.