Sack Marama Davidson!

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Sez the white cis male. Yes dear.

[king1]

Good grief. Regardless of any annoyingly inconvenient facts, it will perhaps invariably be her fault for some.

Her initial statement was not fact. It was a racist generalisation.

Why does it bother you so?  As a white male I couldn't give a toss - as a cohort we cause a lot of harm and anything that highlights that can only help bring it to the fore...

If we're looking at the numbers, the statement is totally accurate as far as males are concerned so it's obviously the reference to white that ticked you off...   

so do you know that it isn't true? are there any stats on it?

[Wainuiguy]

Her initial statement was not fact. It was a racist generalisation.

Why does it bother you so?  
If we're looking at the numbers, it is totally accurate as far as males are concerned, and it is totally accurate as far as the cis-male is concerned, so the one and only thing you can be ticked off about was the reference to white...   

Do you know that it isn't true?

Of course it isn't true- you put the Stats up ffs.  Are you saying the stats you put up were wrong?

Why does it bother me? Because she is a person in a position of power who is clearly racist.  If Luxon said all violent crime was committed by Moari men you would all be up in arms about how terrible and racist it is..  Hypocrites one and all.

[Lilith7]

What she said didn't mention race, just heterosexual males. And that is the group most likely to be involved in violence.

[king1]

What she said didn't mention race, just heterosexual males. And that is the group most likely to be involved in violence.

It was white cis-men was it not?

But i'm still not sure I would call it racism myself, it's so far removed from the pure racism and hatred that you see from some members of society. I imagine many white men might find it uncomfortably close to home being a member of the same cohort. Men cannot deny what harm there species causes.

It's an opportunity to learn imo not a reason to fire someone...

[Wainuiguy]

What she said didn't mention race, just heterosexual males. And that is the group most likely to be involved in violence.

Are you deaf?  She said WHITE Cis men.

[Wainuiguy]

What she said didn't mention race, just heterosexual males. And that is the group most likely to be involved in violence.

It was white cis-men was it not?

But i'm still not sure I would call it racism myself, it's so far removed from the pure racism and hatred that you see from some members of society.  I imagine many white men might find it uncomfortably close to home being a member of the same cohort.  Men cannot deny what harm there species causes.

It's an opportunity to learn imo not a reason to fire someone...

So you dont think mentioning a specific skin colour and then stating that they are the ones who perpetrate violence isn't racist?

If I said Moari are the only ones killing their kids would you think that was racist?

[king1]

It was white cis-men was it not?

But i'm still not sure I would call it racism myself, it's so far removed from the pure racism and hatred that you see from some members of society.  I imagine many white men might find it uncomfortably close to home being a member of the same cohort.  Men cannot deny what harm there species causes.

It's an opportunity to learn imo not a reason to fire someone...

So you dont think mentioning a specific skin colour and then stating that they are the ones who perpetrate violence isn't racist?

If I said Moari are the only ones killing their kids would you think that was racist?

You seem to be hell bent on labelling her a racist, and that's fine, it's your opinion.  

I don't agree - it was inappropriate and dumb thing to say, but I don't see this as evidence of racism - context is everything and you seem to be ignoring all context in favour of focusing on the word 'white' - one could speculate why that is?

I put it in the same category as Luxon calling out 'bottom feeders' - dumb, inappropriate, insensitive even, but in and of itself not really discriminatory against the lower classes... 

Now, repeated offences would tend to indicate a pattern of behaviour and might be a different story which i'll form a judgement on at the time...

[Wainuiguy]

So you dont think mentioning a specific skin colour and then stating that they are the ones who perpetrate violence isn't racist?

If I said Moari are the only ones killing their kids would you think that was racist?

You seem to be hell bent on labelling her a racist, and that's fine, it's your opinion.  

I don't agree - it was inappropriate and dumb thing to say, but I don't see this as evidence of racism - context is everything and you seem to be ignoring all context in favour of focusing on the word 'white' - one could speculate why that is?

I put it in the same category as Luxon calling out 'bottom feeders' - dumb, inappropriate, insensitive even, but in and of itself not really discriminatory against the lower classes... 

Now, repeated offences would tend to indicate a pattern of behaviour and might be a different story which i'll form a judgement on at the time...

So if dumb and inappropriate then she should have apologised publicly for the comment.   She hasn't.

I don't think it meets the level she should resign or be taken off the portfolio - but an apology would have been appropriate. 

And you ask why I am focusing on the "white" part?  Easy - any time some picks out a skin colour in an statement be that white, brown, black, yellow or copper it is unhelpful.  

I ask again - if a politician said only brown people kill their babies would your reposnse be the same?

[king1]

You seem to be hell bent on labelling her a racist, and that's fine, it's your opinion.  

I don't agree - it was inappropriate and dumb thing to say, but I don't see this as evidence of racism - context is everything and you seem to be ignoring all context in favour of focusing on the word 'white' - one could speculate why that is?

I put it in the same category as Luxon calling out 'bottom feeders' - dumb, inappropriate, insensitive even, but in and of itself not really discriminatory against the lower classes... 

Now, repeated offences would tend to indicate a pattern of behaviour and might be a different story which i'll form a judgement on at the time...

So if dumb and inappropriate then she should have apologised publicly for the comment.   She hasn't.

I don't think it meets the level she should resign or be taken off the portfolio - but an apology would have been appropriate. 

And you ask why I am focusing on the "white" part?  Easy - any time some picks out a skin colour in an statement be that white, brown, black, yellow or copper it is unhelpful.  

I ask again - if a politician said only brown people kill their babies would your reposnse be the same?

well you've escalated the scenario by including killing and babies, but again context is everything, so probably yes but depends...  Ask me when it happens...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Adjectives can be so unhelpful when talking about human beings. Maybe we should just avoid them and focus on the fact they are people.

[Kenj]

...anyway, intelligence is not a prerequisite for becoming a politician. A fact well proven by many previous MP's in my lifetime.

[Lilith7]

Indeed - my mistake she did mention race which I'd forgotten.

Nonetheless, that is a fact & sadly that is the group which is responsible for most violence in our world. Perhaps we'd do well to start finding the reasons for that & attempting to change it.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Reasons? Howabout power imbalance?

[Lilith7]

Reasons? Howabout power imbalance?

Why yes - that just might possibly have a little something to do with it. That, & racism do tend to have a bit of a large-ish gap.

You'd think a good stiff does of fairness & equality might go some way to help, with any sort of luck.


But it does make sense & so we'd best not hold our breath...

Incidentally, just finished a book about a pandemic, The end of men, Christine Sweeney-Baird - while its not the best book I've ever read, the ideas in it are really interesting. How slowly the power imbalance changes as more men die & women must take their places.

[Kenj]

Reasons? Howabout power imbalance?

The end of men, Christine Sweeney-Baird - while its not the best book I've ever read, the ideas in it are really interesting. How slowly the power imbalance changes as more men die & women must take their places.

I don't mind who's boss in our house, or world for that matter. As long as I have a woman who buys me The odd bottle of Bundy, Easter eggs, Christmas mince pies. Scorched Almonds and the occasional pack of Spicy Muffins, I'm happy.  

My needs and desires are few these days.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

In this house there is only one boss. She is very strict about important things like meal times and bed times and waking up times. The rest she leaves up to me.

[C_T_Russell]

Unbelievable that Simon O'Connor had to apologize over this!
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/487...g-comments

---

What she said didn't mention race, just heterosexual males. And that is the group most likely to be involved in violence.

It was white cis-men was it not?

But i'm still not sure I would call it racism myself, it's so far removed from the pure racism and hatred that you see from some members of society.  I imagine many white men might find it uncomfortably close to home being a member of the same cohort.  Men cannot deny what harm there species causes.

It's an opportunity to learn imo not a reason to fire someone...

If calling out black people is racist, then same applies for white.

[Kenj]

In this house there is only one boss. She is very strict about important things like meal times and bed times and waking up times. The rest she leaves up to me.

Cat!    'nuff said!

[Oh_hunnihunni]

In this house there is only one boss. She is very strict about important things like meal times and bed times and waking up times. The rest she leaves up to me.

Cat!    'nuff said!

Currently sound asleep on my pillow..