Farm emission plan announced, expect to pay more for your food...

[harm_less]

Edit:
I also had this article come my way, looks like regenerative farming is set for failure.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/green-dream-p...s-into-red

That article pretty much describes what is referred to as 'organics by neglect'. Organics done knowledgeably doesn't just severely reduce or cease fertiliser inputs and expect all to be fine on their property. To do so will appear fine and dandy for the first few years until pasture/plant growth depletes (i.e. mines) available nutrients and this can be further exacerbated by use of growth promoting substances such as seaweed based 'feeds' as they help the plants to extract those last remnants of fertility, but once the production level bottoms out replenishing those nutrients is a slow and often expensive lesson in how soil nutrition actually works. It would seem these farmers have now learnt that lesson.

---

You are incorrect about the "small percentagë"
The carbon cycle is perfectly able to cope with however much methane and CO2 is discharged
It is a closed loop
If Ruminant numbers are not increasing, ( in NZ they are decreasing) there is no contribution to global warming.
Worth noting also that the global warming equations with farming are gross and make no allowance for  increases in soil carbon or product sent off farm.  

A small percentage of CO2 and CH4 (methane) will be absorbed by soil and vegetation activity but the vast majority of it rises into the upper atmosphere where it is reeking havoc with weather systems and global temperatures. It can possibly eventually be completely absorbed by plant and soil life but in the meantime we are suffering the downstream effects of upsetting the balance in systems including the carbon cycle.

Rumnant numbers in total are in decline in New Zealand but that is largely the result of a decline in sheep populations which have in part been replaced by dairy herds. Not only then are the individual animals emitting higher levels but intensive dairying employs dense stocking rates as they rotate across their grazing areas with effluent (and exhalations) being discharged at higher rates than the soils in those pastures can buffer as it enters their biological cycles. The result is that groundwater is degraded by nitrates and other nitrogen content is lost to the atmosphere as ammonia.

To further complicate matters intensive dairying often now includes application of soluble nitrogen fertilisers which reduce soil carbon (humus) levels which reduces the biological buffering capacity of the soils in these systems. The manufacture of those nitrogen fertilisers is also fossil fuel dependent so carbon that was sequestered by plant growth many million of years ago which is released during the manufacturing process including methane escape.

[BAM]

Edit:
I also had this article come my way, looks like regenerative farming is set for failure.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/green-dream-p...s-into-red

That article pretty much describes what is referred to as 'organics by neglect'. Organics done knowledgeably doesn't just severely reduce or cease fertiliser inputs and expect all to be fine on their property. To do so will appear fine and dandy for the first few years until pasture/plant growth depletes (i.e. mines) available nutrients and this can be further exacerbated by use of growth promoting substances such as seaweed based 'feeds' as they help the plants to extract those last remnants of fertility, but once the production level bottoms out replenishing those nutrients is a slow and often expensive lesson in how soil nutrition actually works. It would seem these farmers have now learnt that lesson.

---

You are incorrect about the "small percentagë"
The carbon cycle is perfectly able to cope with however much methane and CO2 is discharged
It is a closed loop
If Ruminant numbers are not increasing, ( in NZ they are decreasing) there is no contribution to global warming.
Worth noting also that the global warming equations with farming are gross and make no allowance for  increases in soil carbon or product sent off farm.  

A small percentage of CO2 and CH4 (methane) will be absorbed by soil and vegetation activity but the vast majority of it rises into the upper atmosphere where it is reeking havoc with weather systems and global temperatures. It can possibly eventually be completely absorbed by plant and soil life but in the meantime we are suffering the downstream effects of upsetting the balance in systems including the carbon cycle.

Rumnant numbers in total are in decline in New Zealand but that is largely the result of a decline in sheep populations which have in part been replaced by dairy herds. Not only then are the individual animals emitting higher levels but intensive dairying employs dense stocking rates as they rotate across their grazing areas with effluent (and exhalations) being discharged at higher rates than the soils in those pastures can buffer as it enters their biological cycles. The result is that groundwater is degraded by nitrates and other nitrogen content is lost to the atmosphere as ammonia.

To further complicate matters intensive dairying often now includes application of soluble nitrogen fertilisers which reduce soil carbon (humus) levels which reduces the biological buffering capacity of the soils in these systems. The manufacture of those nitrogen fertilisers is also fossil fuel dependent so carbon that was sequestered by plant growth many million of years ago which is released during the manufacturing process including methane escape.

The carbon cycle by its very nature does recycle carbon, CO2 levels had been more or less static for years prior to burning fossil fuels.
Weather systems are not reeking havoc, in fact if you look at in a world scale adverse events are not getting worse.
Both sheep and cattle numbers are in decline, cattle numbers are not increasing.
Soil humus levels are not reduced by nitrogen application.
Nitrogen fertiliser manufacture is not fossil fuel dependent.
Worth noting that Nitrogen application to pastures means more plant growth which removes CO2 and also results in more carbon being removed via farm products.

[harm_less]

That article pretty much describes what is referred to as 'organics by neglect'. Organics done knowledgeably doesn't just severely reduce or cease fertiliser inputs and expect all to be fine on their property. To do so will appear fine and dandy for the first few years until pasture/plant growth depletes (i.e. mines) available nutrients and this can be further exacerbated by use of growth promoting substances such as seaweed based 'feeds' as they help the plants to extract those last remnants of fertility, but once the production level bottoms out replenishing those nutrients is a slow and often expensive lesson in how soil nutrition actually works. It would seem these farmers have now learnt that lesson.

---

A small percentage of CO2 and CH4 (methane) will be absorbed by soil and vegetation activity but the vast majority of it rises into the upper atmosphere where it is reeking havoc with weather systems and global temperatures. It can possibly eventually be completely absorbed by plant and soil life but in the meantime we are suffering the downstream effects of upsetting the balance in systems including the carbon cycle.

Rumnant numbers in total are in decline in New Zealand but that is largely the result of a decline in sheep populations which have in part been replaced by dairy herds. Not only then are the individual animals emitting higher levels but intensive dairying employs dense stocking rates as they rotate across their grazing areas with effluent (and exhalations) being discharged at higher rates than the soils in those pastures can buffer as it enters their biological cycles. The result is that groundwater is degraded by nitrates and other nitrogen content is lost to the atmosphere as ammonia.

To further complicate matters intensive dairying often now includes application of soluble nitrogen fertilisers which reduce soil carbon (humus) levels which reduces the biological buffering capacity of the soils in these systems. The manufacture of those nitrogen fertilisers is also fossil fuel dependent so carbon that was sequestered by plant growth many million of years ago which is released during the manufacturing process including methane escape.

The carbon cycle by its very nature does recycle carbon, CO2 levels had been more or less static for years prior to burning fossil fuels.
Weather systems are not reeking havoc, in fact if you look at in a world scale adverse events are not getting worse.
Both sheep and cattle numbers are in decline, cattle numbers are not increasing.
Soil humus levels are not reduced by nitrogen application.
Nitrogen fertiliser manufacture is not fossil fuel dependent.
Worth noting that Nitrogen application to pastures means more plant growth which removes CO2 and also results in more carbon being removed via farm products.

Maybe in your world but like most of your opinions facts would tend to say otherwise. Just a brief online search brings up:
https://grist.org/article/2010-02-23-new...ndermines/

https://www.fertilizerseurope.com/fertil...-are-made/

And about those "cattle numbers are in decline": https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/livestock-numbers

[BAM]

Your link relates to American cropping systems
These say otherwise and are more relevant to NZ pastoral systems
https ://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288233.1988.10423439
https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/1886.pdf

N fertiliser IS frequently made from crude oil products, but it does not have to be behttps://www.outpostcentral.com/remote/(S(4hde4so4cwepcxlrjrstfe2z))/WaterforceDefault.aspx?uguid=e156854f-4cc0-e811-80c5-bc764e18087e

The Haber Bosch process sources nitrogen from the air and currently uses hydrogen sourced from natural gas.
The hydrogen can be sourced other wise (note proposals to use Tiwai point to make "green" hydrogen)

Your link to stats is 3 years out of date.
Dairy cows numbers have declined and recent forestry conversions have yet to be factored in.
https://www.thecattlesite.com/news/59168...ected-gain.

[harm_less]

Your link relates to American cropping systems
These say otherwise and are more relevant to NZ pastoral systems
https ://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288233.1988.10423439 Dead link
https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/1886.pdf Nitrogen input noted is by way of fixation by legumes which is totally different than application of high analysis soluble N fertiliser.

N fertiliser IS frequently made from crude oil products, but it does not have to be  behttps://www.outpostcentral.com/remote/(S(4hde4so4cwepcxlrjrstfe2z))/WaterforceDefault.aspx?uguid=e156854f-4cc0-e811-80c5-bc764e18087e URL is for login page of a subscription website.

The Haber Bosch process sources nitrogen from the air and currently uses hydrogen sourced from natural gas.
The hydrogen can be sourced other wise (note proposals to use Tiwai point to make "green" hydrogen)Hydrogen production is a whole different discussion. 'Excess' electricity when Tiwai closes is far more efficiently utilised to charge EVs and address national domestic pricing. Hydrogen used in fertiliser production is far more likely to be sourced from the blue hydrogen production system proposed at Ballance's Kapuni (ammonia urea) plant.

Your link to stats is 3 years out of date.
Dairy cows numbers have declined and recent forestry conversions have yet to be factored in.
https://www.thecattlesite.com/news/59168...ected-gain. Your link relates to a US based article summarising beef production rates in NZ with minimal mention of dairy cattle. The Stat's NZ website is slow to update but the strong trends shown over the past decade (i.e. doubling of dairy numbers since 1980s won't have reversed in the past 3 years. Also the mention of reducing herd numbers is a "projection" which is a less than reliable approach in light of the volatility of world markets in the current economic and social climate.

Plenty of spurious info in your post. My notes in red above.

[SueDonim]

"https ://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288233.1988.10423439 Dead link"

Take out the space before the colon and it works.

P.B.S. Hart & J.A. August (1988) Use of nitrogen fertiliser in restoration of pasture productivity and soil fertility after topsoil mining, New
Zealand Journal of Agricultural Research, 31:4, 439-443, DOI: 10.1080/00288233.1988.10423439
To link to this article: https://doi.org/10.1080/00288233.1988.10423439

Abstract The response of a grass-clover pasture to fertiliser nitrogen (N) on land mined of its topsoil 6 years previously was measured over 2 years. The effect of fertiliser N on the soil microbial biomass and organic matter content was also measured. N (150 kg N/ha in three split dressings of urea) increased the annual pasture production of 4850 kg dry matter (DM)/haby 47% in the first year of application. In the second year, N (200 kg N/hain four split dressings) increased the annual pasture production of 9500 kg DM/ha by 34%. Grass responded to the addition of fertiliser N whereas clover was suppressed. The soil microbial biomass content of the surface 20 cm was 70% higher after 2 years of adding fertiliser N. The corresponding organic matter content was 10% higher after addition of fertiliser N. These results are discussed in relation to use of fertiliser N as a management tool in restoring plant productivity and soil fertility on land disturbed by topsoil mining.

[harm_less]

"https ://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288233.1988.10423439 Dead link"

Take out the space before the colon and it works.

P.B.S. Hart & J.A. August (1988) Use of nitrogen fertiliser in restoration of pasture productivity and soil fertility after topsoil mining, New
Zealand Journal of Agricultural Research, 31:4, 439-443, DOI: 10.1080/00288233.1988.10423439
To link to this article: https://doi.org/10.1080/00288233.1988.10423439

Abstract The response of a grass-clover pasture to fertiliser nitrogen (N) on land mined of its topsoil 6 years previously was measured over 2 years. The effect of fertiliser N on the soil microbial biomass and organic matter content was also measured. N (150 kg N/ha in three split dressings of urea) increased the annual pasture production of 4850 kg dry matter (DM)/haby 47% in the first year of application. In the second year, N (200 kg N/hain four split dressings) increased the annual pasture production of 9500 kg DM/ha by 34%. Grass responded to the addition of fertiliser N whereas clover was suppressed. The soil microbial biomass content of the surface 20 cm was 70% higher after 2 years of adding fertiliser N. The corresponding organic matter content was 10% higher after addition of fertiliser N. These results are discussed in relation to use of fertiliser N as a management tool in restoring plant productivity and soil fertility on land disturbed by topsoil mining.

Interesting study of remediation techniques following removal (mining) of topsoil altogether as happens in mining overburden removal or 'recontouring' of farmland. Essentially a blank canvas so far as soil biome and OM is concerned so N is being used to drive biological activity in a similar fashion to adding 'green' (N rich) material to a composting scenario to feed the breakdown organisms. Also worth noting that N application had a negative effect on legume N fixation activity so that aspect of self-remediation was restricted in favour of application of synthetic N.

[C_T_Russell]

Your link relates to American cropping systems
These say otherwise and are more relevant to NZ pastoral systems
https ://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288233.1988.10423439
https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/1886.pdf

N fertiliser IS frequently made from crude oil products, but it does not have to be  behttps://www.outpostcentral.com/remote/(S(4hde4so4cwepcxlrjrstfe2z))/WaterforceDefault.aspx?uguid=e156854f-4cc0-e811-80c5-bc764e18087e

The Haber Bosch process sources nitrogen from the air and currently uses hydrogen sourced from natural gas.
The hydrogen can be sourced other wise (note proposals to use Tiwai point to make "green" hydrogen)

Your link to stats is 3 years out of date.
Dairy cows numbers have declined and recent forestry conversions have yet to be factored in.
https://www.thecattlesite.com/news/59168...ected-gain.

Pretty much al sulfur used in Fertilizer is also derived as a by-product from oil and gas production, this will likely dry up if all oil production stops.
Volcanoes are the other source for the stuff but thats extremely dangerous, in some poorer countries this is still being done by hand by people with no safety gear.

[C_T_Russell]

Just been watching this, looks like its all part of the world economic forums global reset.

[king1]

Just been watching this, looks like its all part of the world economic forums global reset.

Now to me it looks like incoherent ramblings...   interpreting alternative facts any way we choose - that's all they did...

[harm_less]

Just been watching this, looks like its all part of the world economic forums global reset.

Now to me it looks like incoherent ramblings...   interpreting alternative facts any way we choose - that's all they did...

A couple of talking heads with little real knowledge of their own loosely reviewing protesters' rantings and text from CT documents. Nothing to see here folks

[Lilith7]

Just been watching this, looks like its all part of the world economic forums global reset.

Oh dear 'noo zeelan has gone crazy!'

How odd then, that none of us actually living here noticed. 

"Noo Zeelan has gone fascist'  

Oh, really???! Well sweetie, if it has it's only in the fevered imaginations of right wing Americans who are so very busily spinning propaganda, for reasons best known to themselves.

Because the plain fact is that if the govt of  this country had in fact become  fascist there would scarcely be a person left in their houses. We'd all be in the streets protesting. 
Loudly, non violently.

What a load of old cobblers.

[Praktica]

Bullshit with a big helping of misogyny.

[SueDonim]

Bullshit with a big helping of misogyny.

I thought it would be and nearly didn't look, but am pleased that I did. What I saw was mainly the part about our farmers and it was pretty on the mark. People are screaming about increased food prices yet the government is just pushing to make it worse. One day we'll wake up and realise that our farms are now all growing pine trees and we have to import all our food. That's really great for our carbon footprint.

[C_T_Russell]

Bullshit with a big helping of misogyny.

I thought it would be and nearly didn't look, but am pleased that I did. What I saw was mainly the part about our farmers and it was pretty on the mark. People are screaming about increased food prices yet the government is just pushing to make it worse. One day we'll wake up and realise that our farms are now all growing pine trees and we have to import all our food. That's really great for our carbon footprint.

Damn right, we will have no farms left and everything will be bloody pines everywhere, I was driving out on the west coast the other day and there is tons of sheep farm all planted in pines now!
Its really sad.
Problem is that these "intellectuals" who have no experience in farming or any knowledge on where their food comes from because all they know about getting food is working in an office 24/7 and then buying the food from the supermarket.
Then they get involved in politics and think they can change the world.

Its time we actually had the country run by farmers, we kinda did at one point with Jim Bolger, but we could do better.

[king1]

I thought it would be and nearly didn't look, but am pleased that I did. What I saw was mainly the part about our farmers and it was pretty on the mark. People are screaming about increased food prices yet the government is just pushing to make it worse. One day we'll wake up and realise that our farms are now all growing pine trees and we have to import all our food. That's really great for our carbon footprint.

Its time we actually had the country run by farmers, we kinda did at one point with Jim Bolger, but we could do better.

what so we can end up with the countryside covered in dairy farms instead, and the resulting pollution that has in part led to this point -  giving the running of a country to a single vested interest will not be a good idea...

[Lilith7]

Its time we actually had the country run by farmers, we kinda did at one point with Jim Bolger, but we could do better.

what so we can end up with the countryside covered in dairy farms instead, and the resulting pollution that has in part led to this point -  giving the running of a country to a single vested interest will not be a good idea...

Agreed; at this point a country run by farmers would be disastrous.

[Zurdo]

They seem to have a herd mentality...sheep sheep sheep, then it was dairy, convert every farm to dairy. Now it's pine farms. When will they learn to think for themselves ? Lots of things you can do with farmland that's not what all the others are doing.

[C_T_Russell]

Its time we actually had the country run by farmers, we kinda did at one point with Jim Bolger, but we could do better.

what so we can end up with the countryside covered in dairy farms instead, and the resulting pollution that has in part led to this point -  giving the running of a country to a single vested interest will not be a good idea...

Most farmers have cleaned up their act, plus the environmental regulations that Bolger put in place with the resource management act actually put an end to effulent going into streams like it once did.
Now the RMA has many serious flaws that need addressing, and is far from perfect. But it was a step in the right direction.

You take a look at most farms today and all waterways are fenced off with many farmers planting around the streams.

---

They seem to have a herd mentality...sheep sheep sheep, then it was dairy, convert every farm to dairy. Now it's pine farms. When will they learn to think for themselves ? Lots of things you can do with farmland that's not what all the others are doing.

We really should be pursuing sheep farming more.
We were once a country known for its sheep, now they are being targeted as the bad guys.
All these southland farms converted to dairy that need heavy irrigation should have never been permitted.
Its not even the right environment for dairy. We need sheep, not cows.

[Zurdo]

Still stuck in the box, they have to think outside the box. Everyday I drive past a dairy farm...a goat dairy farm. Not controlled by Fontera, prices not dictated by the global market. I expect they supply off season to Northern Hemisphere goats milk drinkers. There is sheep milk too for sheep farmers, and a big market for that too. Not all the world drinks cows milk. But I would like to see wool make a comeback, I'm sure it's much more pollution friendly than synthetic fibres.