Hobsons pledge making a great impact

[C_T_Russell]

Should hopefully ensure that this election swings more to Act and National.
Interestingly Casey Costello has joined NZ First which says alot.
I thought the likes of brash and Act supporters were involved there so that gives me more confidence in voting for NZ First over Act, but both parties can offer alot of good to the table.

[Praktica]

Should hopefully ensure that this election swings more to Act and National.
Interestingly Casey Costello has joined NZ First which says alot.
I thought the likes of brash and Act supporters were involved there so that gives me more confidence in voting for NZ First over Act, but both parties can offer alot of good to the table.

Aha - they are iconoclastic and racist enough for you to support...

[Lilith7]

Should hopefully ensure that this election swings more to Act and National.
Interestingly Casey Costello has joined NZ First which says alot.
I thought the likes of brash and Act supporters were involved there so that gives me more confidence in voting for NZ First over Act, but both parties can offer alot of good to the table.

Aha - they are iconoclastic and racist enough for you to support...

Complete & utter arseholes, that lot. And obtuse with it. I once commented on one of their bits of utter nonsense (not favourably) & the next thing you know, I got an email from them, enquiring as to whether I might like to join their band of absolute bastards.

It took aproximately two seconds to unsubscribe, (which you had to do in order to comment ) so obviously they hadn't bothered to read the comment.

[C_T_Russell]

Should hopefully ensure that this election swings more to Act and National.
Interestingly Casey Costello has joined NZ First which says alot.
I thought the likes of brash and Act supporters were involved there so that gives me more confidence in voting for NZ First over Act, but both parties can offer alot of good to the table.

Aha - they are iconoclastic and racist enough for you to support...

They are NOT racist.
They want equal rights for ALL people REGARDLESS of race. They are against giving rights to any individual race, even worse the definition of maori seems to be more and more based on ancestry and anyone can identify as Maori without even having to prove their lineage!
I got a letter from the electoral commission telling me about options on changing to the Maori roll, why do they send this to me if I'm not maori?
Anyway, I don't hear the media bashing Don Brash as racist and he is the main person behind Hobsons Pledge.
Their billboards and radio adverts are everywhere right now.

[Lilith7]

Aha - they are iconoclastic and racist enough for you to support...

They are NOT racist.
They want equal rights for ALL people REGARDLESS of race. They are against giving rights to any individual race, even worse the definition of maori seems to be more and more based on ancestry and anyone can identify as Maori without even having to prove their lineage!
I got a letter from the electoral commission telling me about options on changing to the Maori roll, why do they send this to me if I'm not maori?
Anyway, I don't hear the media bashing Don Brash as racist and he is the main person behind Hobsons Pledge.
Their billboards and radio adverts are everywhere right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s...0rights%22.

"Hobson's Pledge is a right-wing lobby group in New Zealand that was formed in late September 2016 to oppose affirmative action for Māori people. It is led by conservative politician Don Brash. The group aims to nullify the partnership between the Crown and Māori,[1] remove the Māori electorates, abolish the Waitangi Tribunal, restrict tribal powers and “remove all references in law and in Government policy to Treaty ‘partnership’ and ‘principles’”.[2] It is named after William Hobson, the first Governor of New Zealand and co-author of the Treaty of Waitangi.[3][4] Hobson’s quote on the day of the first signing of the Treaty, “he iwi tahi tātou”, has been used by the group to market their beliefs, with the common translation of the phrase: “we are now one people”.

Hobson’s Pledge is considered to be right-wing,[6][7][8] and it has been placed by some academics on the fringe or alt right.[8][6] Generally considered divisive, the group has been accused of racism for its calls to abolish affirmative action, which the group call "special rights". These measures were designed to combat institutional racism,[9][10] and to adhere to the promises of tino rangatiratanga in Te Tiriti o Waitangi, or roughly, the absolute sovereignty of Māori peoples laid out in the Treaty of Waitangi."

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I had the benefit of being in the same university extension classroom as Don Brash for a few hours every week for some months, many decades ago. As a result I would never support anything he had any association with, or any policy he espoused. We are total and complete opposites in all ways...

[Lilith7]

I had the benefit of being in the same university extension classroom as Don Brash for a few hours every week for some months, many decades ago. As a result I would never support anything he had any association with, or any policy he espoused. We are total and complete opposites in all ways...

So while its true to say thart Brash & Hobson's pledge are in fact making a 'great impact', the type of impact is another thing entirely.

Thankfully.

[Kenj]

He's a bit extreme for me, but without being able to give definitive references, do you not think there are inequities on both sides of the spectrum? Maybe more one side or the other. However, in a perfect world there would be none at all.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Plenty of evidence that human beings of all political persuasions are capable of appalling behaviour. It is though the human component which is most influential, we always have choices, even if it is just to abstain. So that is why I put a lot of weight on the person in politics as well as the party.

[Kenj]

Plenty of evidence that human beings of all political persuasions are capable of appalling behaviour. It is though the human component which is most influential, we always have choices, even if it is just to abstain. So that is why I put a lot of weight on the person in politics as well as the party.

I feel that you are quoting the old saying with reference to politicians..... "Empty vessels make the most noise" ? 

[Zurdo]

I'm happy with Hobson's Pledge (but I prefer Lemon) - We are one people - I think that's what the chiefs were thinking when they signed too. But we can't just start now and make it all good, we have to address the past...that we took all your land and treated you like shit for a hundred years. We can't even meet half way, it's too unbalanced.

[Lilith7]

I'm happy with Hobson's Pledge (but I prefer Lemon) - We are one people - I think that's what the chiefs were thinking when they signed too. But we can't just start now and make it all good, we have to address the past...that we took all your land and treated you like shit for a hundred years. We can't even meet half way, it's too unbalanced.

Exactly - & it isn't just here that change is happening. Slowly in various places around the world, people are looking at what was done in the past & trying to change for the better.

I sometimes wonder what our world would look like now, had all our ancestors just traded fairly rather than invading, colonising & exploiting - if the better side of human nature had been allowed to take precedence rather than the worst.

[R2x1]

". . .  we have to address the past...that we took all your land and treated you like shit for a hundred years. We can't even meet half way, it's too unbalanced. "

Change that to '...we have to address the past...that we took all your land ,wiped you out in a hundred years. We can't even meet half way, you've gone forever. "  and it appears the previously accepted NZ way for new arrivals to treat  "tangata whenua"was a bit more vigorous.
Possibly we could believe that our ancestors were as fallible as we often are? Should we accept that all our grandchildren be ostracised because some of their more misguided ancestors once voted for ACT?  Should we curse all politicians because one of them was Muldoon?
How should we treat traffic wardens third generation offspring??  Great grandchildren of Hell's Angels??

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I think you underestimate the business acumen of the Maori, who were well used to trade and commerce when the first Euros arrived. While it is nice to ascribe a sharing and caring attitude to any peoples, I suspect those eyes lit up at the potential gains offered by these strangers who had no idea how to survive in these new islands. Regrettably though, the new guys had better weapons and a much bigger sense of entitlement. And so it has always been.

[Lilith7]

". . .  we have to address the past...that we took all your land and treated you like shit for a hundred years. We can't even meet half way, it's too unbalanced. "

Change that to '...we have to address the past...that we took all your land ,wiped you out in a hundred years. We can't even meet half way, you've gone forever. "  and it appears the previously accepted NZ way for new arrivals to treat  "tangata whenua"was a bit more vigorous.
Possibly we could believe that our ancestors were as fallible as we often are? Should we accept that all our grandchildren be ostracised because some of their more misguided ancestors once voted for ACT?  Should we curse all politicians because one of them was Muldoon?
How should we treat traffic wardens third generation offspring??  Great grandchildren of Hell's Angels??

"Should we curse all politicians because one of them was Muldoon?"


I do rather like that idea....

[harm_less]

Change that to '...we have to address the past...that we took all your land ,wiped you out in a hundred years. We can't even meet half way, you've gone forever. "  and it appears the previously accepted NZ way for new arrivals to treat  "tangata whenua"was a bit more vigorous.
Possibly we could believe that our ancestors were as fallible as we often are? Should we accept that all our grandchildren be ostracised because some of their more misguided ancestors once voted for ACT?  Should we curse all politicians because one of them was Muldoon?
How should we treat traffic wardens third generation offspring??  Great grandchildren of Hell's Angels??

"Should we curse all politicians because one of them was Muldoon?"


I do rather like that idea....

Worth keeping in mind that Winston was taught by Muldoon. He seems to share a similar attitude towards journalists, a generally confrontational manner including in policy content, and stature but that's probably coincidental (or perhaps short man's syndrome is in play in both cases).

[Oh_hunnihunni]

If a group insists it is not racist, then I look at who belongs to it. If they are predominantly white conservatives I am inclined to think not only are they racist but they are also delusional.

There's a lot of that around these days.

[Praktica]

If a group insists it is not racist, then I look at who belongs to it. If they are predominantly white conservatives I am inclined to think not only are they racist but they are also delusional.

There's a lot of that around these days.

They think we are delusional enough to support them.

[R2x1]

I think you underestimate the business acumen of the Maori, who were well used to trade and commerce when the first Euros arrived. While it is nice to ascribe a sharing and caring attitude to any peoples, I suspect those eyes lit up at the potential gains offered by these strangers who had no idea how to survive in these new islands. Regrettably though, the new guys had better weapons and a much bigger sense of entitlement. And so it has always been.

That is another tradition when a fresh majority arrives. However, the third migration didn't adopt the 2nd migration's dietary customs. Nor did the 2nd wave trade for weapons with the 1st wave, although they did demonstrate the application of them just like the third wave did.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/4969...ance-group