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It can harm our health. Interesting article - quite a lot of us now have difficulty in affording electricity & the writer (clearly a commie/lefti/hippie) suggests that we need to put people over profits!
No doubt sufficient to give Roger Douglas & his mates conniptions should they happen to read this article. But they'll recover quickly because like almost everyone else reading this they know its never going to happen.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/...010101_1_1
"The electricity market, an essential service for upholding human rights, is in fact harming the health of New Zealanders and will cost the public health system, writes Dr Kimberley O’Sullivan
Comment: Over the past month, electricity retailers have announced huge profit increases, at a time when the cost of living is putting additional stress on household finances. Our electricity market is made up of different elements; starting with companies that generate electricity and sell it to the wholesale market, others that then carry the electricity through the lines, some that own the meters that measure how much is coming into our homes, and the ones we know best – retail companies that households have contracts with to pay for all of this.
The thinking behind deregulation and arranging our electricity system like this was that it would create a market where people would actively search for the best deal and switch between electricity retailers who would compete to offer the cheapest and best service for electricity.
But in practice, this idea hasn’t worked well for keeping everyday electricity prices low for households, instead residential prices have continued to rise.
Firstly, people don’t tend to switch electricity companies very often – around half of New Zealanders haven’t switched for at least five years.
People experiencing energy hardship – when households can’t afford or access enough household energy to meet their needs – are often not able to switch because they have a payment plan, debt to their company, or use a prepay meter which costs more.
Secondly, our four largest electricity companies both generate and retail electricity and have a large share of the market: around 85 percent of households buy their power from these companies.
Thirdly, it’s difficult for new retailers to start up because of the large costs involved in purchasing electricity to sell to households from the wholesale market.
The result? The four biggest electricity generator/retailers or ‘gentailers’ have just announced large profit increases at the same time new information shows households are increasingly struggling to pay their power bills.
Mercury reported earnings of $841m over the past year – up 45 percent from 2022, followed closely by Meridian earning $783m (up 10 percent), while Genesis earned $573m (up 5 percent), and Contact increased its profits by 19 percent, reporting earnings of $523.5m.
Similar to its previous survey, 42 percent of households say it is harder to pay than it was a year ago and the same number have experienced financial pressure in relation to their electricity bills.
Their results show that families, larger households, and lower income households are even more likely to experience financial pressure.
Concerningly, over half of people (58 percent and 56 percent, respectively) who are medically dependent on electricity to support their health at home, for example because they use a home dialysis or oxygen machine, are finding it harder to pay or are experiencing financial pressure due to the cost of electricity.
In its June 2023 survey of residential consumers, the Consumer Advocacy Council found that 65 percent of households are concerned about electricity costs, up from 58 percent last year.
The result of allowing an electricity market that prevents people from being able to afford to heat their homes (not helped by our comparatively poor housing quality) is that on top of the stress and illness these people experience, we see excess hospital admissions we all collectively pay for through our public health system.
It has been calculated that cold homes account for 1834 hospital nights, and dampness and mould for 36,649, per year in Aotearoa, costing us an annual $141m in public sector health costs.
What can we do?
To ensure no one is forced to make impossible choices between heating and eating, we need to put people over profits."
in order to be old & wise, you must first be young & stupid. (I'm still working on that.)
Thread: Electricity isn't just expensive
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05-09-2023, 12:57 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2023, 01:07 PM by king1.)
yeah the system does seem broken to me - the biggest issue from what i can see is the big four are generators as well as retailers and they seem to have the ability to undercut the other retailer only providers.
But I think they are a money spinner for the government so i'm not sure how much political will there will be to fix the problem...
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05-09-2023, 01:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2023, 01:39 PM by Oh_hunnihunni.)
I used the new heat pump on three occasions this past winter, in addition to my free hours of power, and on each occasion I could see the electricity use rise sharply. It may be the most efficient form of heating, but diving under the quilt with a hot water bottle and a cat is way cheaper.
I have now turned the pump off at the outside connection, so will be interested to see if that latent use disappears from my monthly usage. Watching that use on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis is really helpful for me in planning my budget...
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(05-09-2023, 01:38 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It may be the most efficient form of heating, but diving under the quilt with a hot water bottle and a cat is way cheaper.
What if it is a "Three Dog Night"?
Corgi Wan Kenobi is watching you!
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(05-09-2023, 02:36 PM)Kenj Wrote: (05-09-2023, 01:38 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It may be the most efficient form of heating, but diving under the quilt with a hot water bottle and a cat is way cheaper.
What if it is a "Three Dog Night"?
Then you're up the well known creek. Without a paddle...
in order to be old & wise, you must first be young & stupid. (I'm still working on that.)
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(05-09-2023, 02:36 PM)Kenj Wrote: (05-09-2023, 01:38 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: It may be the most efficient form of heating, but diving under the quilt with a hot water bottle and a cat is way cheaper.
What if it is a "Three Dog Night"?
Ahhh, that's two hot water bottles...
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Once upon a time - long, long ago when govts believed it was their duty to provide the best for their voters, (yes children, that really was true at the time, briefly) & when Dragons & faeries dared show themselves, our govt owned the power provider.
And no one was too cold because they couldn't afford to pay the cost.
https://www.eea.co.nz/Site/about/electri...years.aspx
"In 4 August 1888, Reefton became the first town in New Zealand, and the southern hemisphere, to have its own public electricity supply.
Two years before, in 1886, engineer and entrepreneur Walter Prince had visited Reefton and enthused residents with his demonstrations of electric power. A group of them put money into a private company to build a 20kW hydroelectric power station using water from the Inangahua River.
Power lines were installed through the town, with householders and business owners paying £1 (about $100 in today's money) to have the power connected, then a flat £3 a year for every light they had in their building.
By Christmas 1888, there were some 500 bulbs blazing
1914
The country's first modern hydroelectricity power station was opened in 1914 at Lake Coleridge in the Southern Alps.
The end of World War I saw the beginning of explosive growth in the use of electricity at home and in the workplace. The government took a central role in building power stations. With the country's topography and abundant rainfall it was decided that hydroelectric generation was the best choice to develop our electricity supply.
1919
In 1919, Southland Electric Power Board became the first power supply authority. New Zealand's government was committed to providing 'an abundant supply of cheap electric power throughout the land'.
That meant raising loans to build hydroelectric power stations and link the power generated in a network that would reach all the country's major communities.
1921
With the supply of electricity to the country, radio stations were possible. New Zealand's first radio broadcast came from Dunedin on 17 November 1921.
1922
In 1922, Gordon Coates, Minister of Public Works, said in Parliament: "The Government is most anxious that the people should get their electricity at as cheap a rate as possible."
1923
By 1923 the country had 11 licensed radio stations broadcasting to nearly 3,000 receivers.
Electricity consumption increased over 600 per cent from 1920 to 1930
By 1934, the North Island had a joined-up 'grid' linking the three new hydroelectric power stations - Mangahao (Manawatu), Tuai (Lake Waikaremoana) and Arapuni (Waikato River). By 1938, power from the Waitaki River hydro scheme joined a network connecting two-thirds of the South Island - from the West Coast to Canterbury through to Otago and Southland.
1960
In 1960, the government decided to construct a line sending South Island power to the North Island. It would run from the 540MW Benmore hydro station (New Zealand's biggest before Manapouri), then being built, to a substation in the Hutt Valley. The cable was complete in 1965 and at over 600 kilometres, including 40 under water, it was the longest HVDC link in the world at the time.
The introduction of black-and-white television in 1961 was accompanied by a surge of electricity consumption - an average of 10 per cent each year over the next five years.
1970
By the 1970s, a fully operational national grid supplied around 99 per cent of New Zealand's population with electricity. People now depended on that supply round the clock.
1987
In 1987, the Labour government decided it was not the government's role to manage electricity supply. It turned the Electricity Department into the Electricity Corporation of New Zealand (ECNZ), a state-owned enterprise with the business of generating power and selling it to retail organisations.
1997
In 1997, National government minister Max Bradford broke up ECNZ into several businesses competing with each other in the generation and supply of electricity. This formed the basis of today's electricity market.
in order to be old & wise, you must first be young & stupid. (I'm still working on that.)
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05-09-2023, 03:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2023, 03:49 PM by harm_less.)
What we are about to see is a huge disruption of the electricity sector. As of the end of 2022 there was 255 MW of grid-connected photovoltaic (PV) solar power installed in New Zealand with 25% of it installed during 2022. As electricity retail prices rise they increasingly serve as an incentive to 'make your own' and with the price of PV (and home batteries) falling in price this becomes an ever more viable solution for those with the means to do so. The end result of this scenario is for customers to disconnect from the grid altogether with sufficient generation and storage providing them with total self sufficiency. The meagre price paid by most of our electricity providers to customers for their exported 'excess' generation is just further reason to maximise self consumption or totally turn their backs on the gen-retailers when that increasing distributed generation should be contributing to an increasing national electricity demand as electrification of homes, businesses and transportation is taken up.
But, those with limited means who have no choice but to pay whatever their electricity retailer chooses to charge are left to finance the infrastructure required to span New Zealand with less electricity transmission sold to contribute to those costs. That means that electricity unit costs must rise in order to keep the gen-retailers afloat. To further compound the problem those rising prices serve as an added incentive for self generation and so the process spirals. This situation has been the subject of much research and is referred to as the 'Electricity Utility Death Spiral'. Unless electricity suppliers wise up they're on a hiding to nowhere.
New Zealand is in a somewhat unique situation in having a huge percentage of our generating capacity coming from hydro. This presents an opportunity in that hydro lakes are essentially huge batteries able to store that potential energy until demand occurs thereby buffering the variability of solar and wind generation. Instead those hydro facilities are reputedly used to block smaller solar and wind based generating companies by suppressing demand during peak solar or wind opportunities with hydro generation.
For an international perspective of what's happening and what to expect you won't find much better info than this guy:
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05-09-2023, 04:42 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2023, 04:42 PM by Lilith7.)
Perhaps once the costs of solar drops enough, groups of ordinary people might get together & raise enought to finance solar for their group, in a similar way to the way in which co operatives work, if its possible.
in order to be old & wise, you must first be young & stupid. (I'm still working on that.)
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(05-09-2023, 04:42 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: Perhaps once the costs of solar drops enough, groups of ordinary people might get together & raise enought to finance solar for their group, in a similar way to the way in which co operatives work, if its possible. That type of thing is being trialled internationally including in Western Australia: https://www.westernpower.com.au/our-ener...y-storage/
A major advantage in doing this type of community enterprise is that upfront costs for items such as battery storage can be shared thereby becoming more accessible to the less well off.
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I rather like that campaign policy that suggested solar installation subsidies would be part of their targeted wishlist. Now, I wonder which party that was...
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05-09-2023, 06:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2023, 07:09 PM by Lilith7.)
(05-09-2023, 04:59 PM)harm_less Wrote: (05-09-2023, 04:42 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: Perhaps once the costs of solar drops enough, groups of ordinary people might get together & raise enought to finance solar for their group, in a similar way to the way in which co operatives work, if its possible. That type of thing is being trialled internationally including in Western Australia: https://www.westernpower.com.au/our-ener...y-storage/
A major advantage in doing this type of community enterprise is that upfront costs for items such as battery storage can be shared thereby becoming more accessible to the less well off.
That does look like quite a good idea.
(05-09-2023, 06:45 PM)Oh_hunnihunni Wrote: I rather like that campaign policy that suggested solar installation subsidies would be part of their targeted wishlist. Now, I wonder which party that was...
It'll be ACT for sure....
Incidentally the political subject next Monday on Te Ao with Moana is David Seymour, which should be extremely interesting.
in order to be old & wise, you must first be young & stupid. (I'm still working on that.)
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The system certainly was cheaper back in the day before it was deregulated.
Our local power board was fairly reasonable at the time before it became trustpower.
Anyway power still seems rather affordable to me, but I agree prices have increased, I have a fireplace so dont use much for heating.
The most ive paid in winter for a months power is about $200, but usually closer to $150
Im keen to add solar panels. I could do a DIY job but its a lot of hassle getting things certified, etc but ive got a friend thats done it.
Are there any companies that do installs where you pay it off on your monthly bill and get full ownership at the end?
I know some of them have lots of fine print and you dont always own the system.
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(11-09-2023, 01:23 PM)nzoomed Wrote: The system certainly was cheaper back in the day before it was deregulated.
Our local power board was fairly reasonable at the time before it became trustpower.
Anyway power still seems rather affordable to me, but I agree prices have increased, I have a fireplace so dont use much for heating.
The most ive paid in winter for a months power is about $200, but usually closer to $150
Im keen to add solar panels. I could do a DIY job but its a lot of hassle getting things certified, etc but ive got a friend thats done it.
Are there any companies that do installs where you pay it off on your monthly bill and get full ownership at the end?
I know some of them have lots of fine print and you dont always own the system. The 'rent to buy' style arrangements I've seen are very much weighted in favour of the provider/installer. Better if you can arrange funding to do it off your own bat. A number of the major trading banks are offering low interest loans for environmentally focussed items such as insulation, solar and EVs. Typically a practically designed PV system has around a 10 year payback so well worth loaning the funds to install it with bank funding at a few %. Essentially it means that the system will pay itself off in not too many years.
Mu advice is to use a reputable installer as there are some design details that they can implement that will more than worthwhile compared to a DIY job, and they should have a good working relationship with your local lines company and electrical inspectorate which will avoid a lot of potential grief. Probably also a requirement to use a qualified installer in order to get a bank loan.
This calculator is a good basic tool to investigate potential return/payback on solar installations: https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/epecentre/r...olar-tool/
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Locally, today a hydroelectric system on the house down pipes would definitely have the power to give much better returns than solar panels (although if the panels were reverse connected to harvest darkness they might have more current than hydro).
Entropy is not what
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(11-09-2023, 03:31 PM)R2x1 Wrote: Locally, today a hydroelectric system on the house down pipes would definitely have the power to give much better returns than solar panels (although if the panels were reverse connected to harvest darkness they might have more current than hydro).
![Tongue Tongue](https://tmmb.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/tongue.png) Yeah, a bit patchy ATM as it pisses down with heavy overcast conditions, but we did harvest ~20kWh this morning before the weather crapped out. Swings and roundabouts as we generated close to 50kWh/day over the past 4 days.
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I didn't harvest any. The powers that be insist we save power, so I took the solar panels down and put them in the shed.
Entropy is not what
it used to be.
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(11-09-2023, 02:48 PM)harm_less Wrote: (11-09-2023, 01:23 PM)nzoomed Wrote: The system certainly was cheaper back in the day before it was deregulated.
Our local power board was fairly reasonable at the time before it became trustpower.
Anyway power still seems rather affordable to me, but I agree prices have increased, I have a fireplace so dont use much for heating.
The most ive paid in winter for a months power is about $200, but usually closer to $150
Im keen to add solar panels. I could do a DIY job but its a lot of hassle getting things certified, etc but ive got a friend thats done it.
Are there any companies that do installs where you pay it off on your monthly bill and get full ownership at the end?
I know some of them have lots of fine print and you dont always own the system. The 'rent to buy' style arrangements I've seen are very much weighted in favour of the provider/installer. Better if you can arrange funding to do it off your own bat. A number of the major trading banks are offering low interest loans for environmentally focussed items such as insulation, solar and EVs. Typically a practically designed PV system has around a 10 year payback so well worth loaning the funds to install it with bank funding at a few %. Essentially it means that the system will pay itself off in not too many years.
Mu advice is to use a reputable installer as there are some design details that they can implement that will more than worthwhile compared to a DIY job, and they should have a good working relationship with your local lines company and electrical inspectorate which will avoid a lot of potential grief. Probably also a requirement to use a qualified installer in order to get a bank loan.
This calculator is a good basic tool to investigate potential return/payback on solar installations: https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/epecentre/r...olar-tool/
Yeah i suspected that, im happy to wait and save up a bit anyways, since I dont have ridiculous power bills currently, but should I get an EV, I would like to make use of the solar to charge my vehicle in the future.
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(12-09-2023, 01:03 PM)nzoomed Wrote: Yeah i suspected that, im happy to wait and save up a bit anyways, since I dont have ridiculous power bills currently, but should I get an EV, I would like to make use of the solar to charge my vehicle in the future. Welcome to the PV/EV wormhole ![Wink Wink](https://tmmb.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/wink.png) In our case we got PV first and then when Meridian slashed the rate they paid for our excess we got a Leaf to be able to better self consume our generation. It worked to a degree but now with a different property and a second EV purchased we upgraded our PV to better cope with charging 2 EVs. The feeling of being able to run a vehicle on your own generation, rather than being beholden to the oil or electricity industries is great, especially when your home's energy costs also benefit.
The next phase for us is to be able to justify the cost of storage of our excess electricity, hopefully by putting our Leaf to service in a V2H/V2G capacity.
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Be independent, get lots of panels. Do your own daylight saving!
Entropy is not what
it used to be.
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