This govt does not value women;pay equity

[SueDonim]

As ACT have said, the Pay Equity Act was noble in its intention but completely missed the mark. Scrapping it does not equal "wanting to be able to pay women less".

As reported, under the act, librarians were equated to fisheries officers with the difference in pay decided therefore to be due to gender discrimination.  Whether librarians should be paid more, less or the same as fisheries officers is a debate you can have if you feel like it, but claiming that librarians are paid less "because it's predominantly a female occupation" is completely baseless.

THIS.

Comments about pay equity seem to always focus on librarians. For most people "the librarian" is the library assistant they see at the circulation desk when they get their books out. They do not always see and rarely have any understanding of the professional librarians behind the scenes. Their basic job qualification these days is a degree of choice followed by a Master of Library and Information Science. Most professional positions require LIANZA registration which in itself requires ongoing evidence of professional development. And all of that is is the generalist path. Special librarians then need to know and understand their individual fields - eg I once heard it said that a medical librarian's knowledge is a similar level to a second year house officer. It's not really that simple, but to understand the resources they are required to provide and manage and/or do accurate literature searches they need to understand the subject. Then there are reference and cataloguing librarians who again need to understand the subject matter of the material they are working with in order to access the correct resources appropriately. Etc. An oversimplification is to say that they need to know everything as they never know what the next question is going to be.

Coming back to the pay equity issue, the common theme of most of the occupations that are considered to be under-paid because the workers are women are in fact occupations where the majority of jobs are in the public sector. And I think that that is the reason they are low-paid and that is the hurdle to improvement. In my 40+ year career in both local body and government, we certainly always "knew" that we were way behind our colleagues who worked for businesses that could have more flexibility in what they chose to pay valued staff. In the public sector, you just had to accept your lot. When you are responsible for setting and spending budgets, you understand that for the staff budget to increase, the operating budget has to decrease and your awareness of responsibility to your organisation, customers and the tax/ratepayers mean that you do your best to provide the right service. And you stay in the job even though you know you could earn more elsewhere.

I did see a recent article that indicated the government sector has come up in relation to the private sector, so maybe it is starting to happen. And if that is the case, then scrapping the Pay Equity Act may have been exactly the right thing to do. There was no point in continuing something that was just lining the pockets of lawyers instead of providing real benefit to those it was supposed to be supporting.

It's another example of how our news media let us down so badly in reporting. They grab the "woe is me" story and then "balance" that with  a couple of superficial paragraphs about the counter argument. We should be getting proper and clear explanation of what is actually going on, and a variety of comment from expert laymen so that people aren't left thinking that everyone is hard done by by whatever the current action is. The reporters need to show a lot more knowledge and understanding of what they are reporting (maybe they should make more use of their librarians!). 

We saw how badly the Treaty Bill was misunderstood and how the public were incited into mass action against it, and a similar thing happened to the withdrawal of the Pay Equity Act. People need to take a step back, put themselves into the shoes of [whoever] is presenting [whatever] and figure out what's really going on. And start listening to those who actually understand the issues and are trying to right the wrongs and make things better for those who need it. Instead of just blindly following the media circus.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Misunderstood?

No, not all of us are as thick as when it comes to racist political ideology, even heavily disguised with weasel words and adopted heritage claims. Authenticity in our leadership is hard to fake, and really easy to detect, ACT MPs are not good at faking it.

[king1]

As ACT have said, the Pay Equity Act was noble in its intention but completely missed the mark. Scrapping it does not equal "wanting to be able to pay women less".

As reported, under the act, librarians were equated to fisheries officers with the difference in pay decided therefore to be due to gender discrimination.  Whether librarians should be paid more, less or the same as fisheries officers is a debate you can have if you feel like it, but claiming that librarians are paid less "because it's predominantly a female occupation" is completely baseless.

THIS.

Comments about pay equity seem to always focus on librarians. For most people "the librarian" is the library assistant they see at the circulation desk when they get their books out. They do not always see and rarely have any understanding of the professional librarians behind the scenes. Their basic job qualification these days is a degree of choice followed by a Master of Library and Information Science. Most professional positions require LIANZA registration which in itself requires ongoing evidence of professional development. And all of that is is the generalist path. Special librarians then need to know and understand their individual fields - eg I once heard it said that a medical librarian's knowledge is a similar level to a second year house officer. It's not really that simple, but to understand the resources they are required to provide and manage and/or do accurate literature searches they need to understand the subject. Then there are reference and cataloguing librarians who again need to understand the subject matter of the material they are working with in order to access the correct resources appropriately. Etc. An oversimplification is to say that they need to know everything as they never know what the next question is going to be.

Coming back to the pay equity issue, the common theme of most of the occupations that are considered to be under-paid because the workers are women are in fact occupations where the majority of jobs are in the public sector. And I think that that is the reason they are low-paid and that is the hurdle to improvement. In my 40+ year career in both local body and government, we certainly always "knew" that we were way behind our colleagues who worked for businesses that could have more flexibility in what they chose to pay valued staff. In the public sector, you just had to accept your lot. When you are responsible for setting and spending budgets, you understand that for the staff budget to increase, the operating budget has to decrease and your awareness of responsibility to your organisation, customers and the tax/ratepayers mean that you do your best to provide the right service. And you stay in the job even though you know you could earn more elsewhere.

I did see a recent article that indicated the government sector has come up in relation to the private sector, so maybe it is starting to happen. And if that is the case, then scrapping the Pay Equity Act may have been exactly the right thing to do. There was no point in continuing something that was just lining the pockets of lawyers instead of providing real benefit to those it was supposed to be supporting.

It's another example of how our news media let us down so badly in reporting. They grab the "woe is me" story and then "balance" that with  a couple of superficial paragraphs about the counter argument. We should be getting proper and clear explanation of what is actually going on, and a variety of comment from expert laymen so that people aren't left thinking that everyone is hard done by by whatever the current action is. The reporters need to show a lot more knowledge and understanding of what they are reporting (maybe they should make more use of their librarians!). 

We saw how badly the Treaty Bill was misunderstood and how the public were incited into mass action against it, and a similar thing happened to the withdrawal of the Pay Equity Act. People need to take a step back, put themselves into the shoes of [whoever] is presenting [whatever] and figure out what's really going on. And start listening to those who actually understand the issues and are trying to right the wrongs and make things better for those who need it. Instead of just blindly following the media circus.

I think the treaty bill was very well understood and got the end result it deserved.  

Blaming this on the media seems a bit disingenuous  - those who understand the issues are very much the people affected by it... It was a money grab, robbing Peter to pay Paul, nothing else...

[zqwerty]

"Misunderstood?

No, not all of us are as thick as when it comes to racist political ideology, even heavily disguised with weasel words and adopted heritage claims. Authenticity in our leadership is hard to fake, and really easy to detect, ACT MPs are not good at faking it."

So so well put, Oh_hunnihunni. Bravo a thousand times.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

One of the tragedies of the pay equity thing was who will be most affected by it. And it isn't librarians.

It is, among others, the hugely underpaid largely female workforce doing the invaluable but soul destroying menial work in our care and resthome facilities, many of which are privately owned, understaffed, badly run, and absolutely essential in our communities.

Until you actually visit these places on a regular basis, so you are familiar with them, there is no way you can understand just how hard these women and men work. And what they put up with on a hourly, daily basis.

We really underserve those we rely on to do our dirty work. To sweep our streets, empty our bins, clean out our sewers, mop up the blood, and change the nappies of our aged and infirm. They are the ones who should be getting mandated annual pay rises. Not our well fed well padded be suited MPs who have no idea how hard the real workers lives actually are...

[Lilith7]

Misunderstood?

No, not all of us are as thick as when it comes to racist political ideology, even heavily disguised with weasel words and adopted heritage claims. Authenticity in our leadership is hard to fake, and really easy to detect, ACT MPs are not good at faking it.

Good grief - 'we just don't understand'

I don't blardy well think so. 
This govt, courtesy of ACT, attempted to alter the treaty terms (very likely with a view to eventually removing it) & were none too pleased when there were massive protests around the country because apparently most Kiwis weren't really all that daft after all & saw whet they were up to.

This govt kicked women in the teeth & is now trying to pretend that it didn't. They had to finance their budget so they took the money they needed from financing pay equity - because obviously, working women don't matter to this gvt. They then claimed hat we've just 'misunderstood' & really, they were trying to 'help' isn't fooling anyone.

They'll be metaphorically patting us on the head any minute now...

That alone should see them out come the next election - "they're worth it."...

---

"Misunderstood?

No, not all of us are as thick as when it comes to racist political ideology, even heavily disguised with weasel words and adopted heritage claims. Authenticity in our leadership is hard to fake, and really easy to detect, ACT MPs are not good at faking it."

So so well put, Oh_hunnihunni.  Bravo a thousand times.

Definitely agreed.

---

One of the tragedies of the pay equity thing was who will be most affected by it. And it isn't librarians.

It is, among others, the hugely underpaid largely female workforce doing the invaluable but soul destroying menial work in our care and resthome facilities, many of which are privately owned, understaffed, badly run, and absolutely essential in our communities.

Until you actually visit these places on a regular basis, so you are familiar with them, there is no way you can understand just how hard these women and men work. And what they put up with on a hourly, daily basis.

We really underserve those we rely on to do our dirty work. To sweep our streets, empty our bins, clean out our sewers, mop up the blood, and change the nappies of our aged and infirm. They are the ones who should be getting mandated annual pay rises. Not our well fed well padded be suited MPs who have no idea how hard the real workers lives actually are...

Probably this govt failed to consider that a good many of us might know or know of, the people who do such work.

I sometimes think that every MP should be required to clean their toilets in parliament for say, 5-6 weeks each year, for which they'll receive the pay which the usual cleaners get, while the cleaners get the MPs pay.

That'd surely help keep them in touch with reality a good bit more...

[heisenberg]

well vote labour back in next election and they will be hamstrung by their lunatic coalition partners and you will get exactly what you deserve, i wish labour won the last election and it would be them having to deal with their own incompetency

[Lilith7]

well vote labour back in next election and they will be hamstrung by their lunatic coalition partners and you will get exactly what you deserve, i wish labour won the last election and it would be them having to deal with their own incompetency

No govt is ever going to be perfect, but it has to be said that the Nats have always tended to be more interested in supporting business people while ignoring those in dire need, while often making things far worse fopr those already struggling.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Everything has to be paid for, nice and nasty. In the end maybe that's where the divide is, some worry about making the money, others about what it can buy.

And we forget, we invented money, so we could uninvent it if we chose. Maybe one day.

[Lilith7]

Everything has to be paid for, nice and nasty. In the end maybe that's where the divide is, some worry about making the money, others about what it can buy.

And we forget, we invented money, so we could uninvent it if we chose. Maybe one day.

Maybe one day.

Imagine the chaos if it was suddenly anounced that the entire world was about to be without money.


The banks would be a bit miffed,to say the least...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Instagram is great some days. Here's this guy laying out a few actual pay equity facts...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJwhvG_Tl..._copy_link

---

Everything has to be paid for, nice and nasty. In the end maybe that's where the divide is, some worry about making the money, others about what it can buy.

And we forget, we invented money, so we could uninvent it if we chose. Maybe one day.

Maybe one day.

Imagine the chaos if it was suddenly anounced that the entire world was about to be without money.


The banks would be a bit miffed,to say the least...

And that would be such a huge loss to whom exactly? 

[Lilith7]

Had to look it up. Should have known...

The 6 countries which gve women equal work rights with men are:

Belgium, Denmark,France, Latvia & Sweden....