Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
NZ First
#21
(18-10-2022, 04:39 PM)Zurdo Wrote: Winston is old school Maori - he was behind the Whina Cooper Land March. He stands by the Treaty, but hates the new interpretation for ''Modern Times.'' He destroyed his career fighting tax evasion (the Winebox saga) and yet he blocked the CGT. You just have to love him and hate him at the same time.

Exactly. I met him once in a work situation and he was the most arrogant a__hole. But, he has done a lot of good just by making people think. And he also let his career go by creating NZ First in opposition to National. He would likely have done a turn as PM if he hadn't gone with what he believed was right at the time. A very complex person, the like of whom we need more of.

BTW, blocking CGT was also right. We don't need it because we have income tax that covers capital gains. All the bright line stuff was just because IRD don't charge the tax they should on the income from trading in capital assets.

(18-10-2022, 05:04 PM)Praktica Wrote:
(18-10-2022, 01:07 PM)SueDonim Wrote: We have a cycle where every time Labour is in power everything gets stuffed up, then when National comes back they have to make unpopular decisions and just start to make headway when they get voted out again. At present most of what is seriously wrong is down to Labour's current or past influence. They did a good job at the beginning of the pandemic but that has fallen by the way, and pretty much everything else related to governance is a total mess.

Most people put it the other way round...national, for instance, stuffed up health, education, and the police in their last term through deliberate underfunding, so they could give their mates tax cuts.

No, the first way around is correct. National always has to tackle the mess and does so by starting with a rein-in of spending, ie being fiscally prudent, then because people don't get that it takes more than 5 minutes, they get voted out again. The tax cuts were to get the economy moving - more spending means business survives and the government makes more in GST. Which, BTW is the fairest tax and the one I'd put up, in conjunction with a tax cut at the low end so that the poor aren't disadvantaged. Spending on "wants" is discretionary and the more wealthy people spend more there, and higher GST would mean they pay more because they spend more.

(18-10-2022, 06:14 PM)Lilith7 Wrote:
(18-10-2022, 05:04 PM)Praktica Wrote: Most people put it the other way round...national, for instance, stuffed up health, education, and the police in their last term through deliberate underfunding, so they could give their mates tax cuts.

Apparently the Nats are also to blame for the many potholes in various parts of the country, having cut funding for roading repairs according to the news tonight.

Cutting road funding was all part of the need to reduce spending to get us back on track - then. What's happening now is partly that everything is done as cheaply as possible, which ends up costing more. A piece of road near here has been re-done three times and is still as rough as hell. When's the last time we saw graders and rollers perfecting the sub-layers? Without them we end up with all the bumps still there which a) make more potholes wherever there is a bump and b) wear our cars out. Each bump might be a minuscule level of wear as it happens, but over the life of the car, multiplied by the number of cars on the road it is costing society a HEAP.

The other factor that harder to counter is that because of better efficiency in oil refining the bitumen is now a lower quality than it used to be. So we will get degradation of surfaces sooner than we used to, but at least if the roads were built correctly to start with we wouldn't see as much damage as we do now. And the road near here that I mentioned above looks like it's about let go again in the next heavy rain.

The other point that makes be angry about potholes was the article where NZTA was telling people to work through their insurance, with the idea that the insurance companies would claim from NZTA if it was appropriate. The problem with that is that the people who do that still have to pay their excess which is not fair. And in many cases the amount for the repair would be less than the excess anyway. So the road users pay. Again and again.
Reply
#22
(19-10-2022, 04:12 PM)SueDonim Wrote:
(18-10-2022, 05:04 PM)Praktica Wrote: Most people put it the other way round...national, for instance, stuffed up health, education, and the police in their last term through deliberate underfunding, so they could give their mates tax cuts.

No, the first way around is correct. National always has to tackle the mess and does so by starting with a rein-in of spending, ie being fiscally prudent, then because people don't get that it takes more than 5 minutes, they get voted out again. The tax cuts were to get the economy moving - more spending means business survives and the government makes more in GST. Which, BTW is the fairest tax and the one I'd put up, in conjunction with a tax cut at the low end so that the poor aren't disadvantaged. Spending on "wants" is discretionary and the more wealthy people spend more there, and higher GST would mean they pay more because they spend more.
I tend to agree with Praktica, cutting services to the point they are no longer performing the service they are required to do just isn't a smart move... but which comes first the chicken or the egg...

Liz Truss did well with tax cuts this year didn't she?
This world would be a perfect place if it wasn't for the people.

Sharesies | Buy Crypto | Surfshark VPN | Cloud Backup
Reply
#23
I think the electorate in democracies all over the planet are waking up. Slowly, but surely. Politicians better recognise that reality if they want votes. Bribery just doesn't work that well any more.
Reply
#24
(19-10-2022, 04:52 PM)king1 Wrote:
(19-10-2022, 04:12 PM)SueDonim Wrote: No, the first way around is correct. National always has to tackle the mess and does so by starting with a rein-in of spending, ie being fiscally prudent, then because people don't get that it takes more than 5 minutes, they get voted out again. The tax cuts were to get the economy moving - more spending means business survives and the government makes more in GST. Which, BTW is the fairest tax and the one I'd put up, in conjunction with a tax cut at the low end so that the poor aren't disadvantaged. Spending on "wants" is discretionary and the more wealthy people spend more there, and higher GST would mean they pay more because they spend more.
I tend to agree with Praktica, cutting services to the point they are no longer performing the service they are required to do just isn't a smart move... but which comes first the chicken or the egg...

Liz Truss did well with tax cuts this year didn't she?

Liz Truss got voted in because she promised the tax cuts. Trouble is that there was no plan for how to pay for them and the excessive borrowing that that would entail threw the international markets into a spin. She's now stuck between a rock and a hard place - the tax cuts supporters blaming her for not doing what she promised, and everyone else blaming her for the international ramifications.

Just like in NZ, she can't work alone. Jacinda is the figurehead, but what she does has the backing of her party. And when National talk of tax cuts, hopefully the plan will include how to pay for them so we avoid the UK problems. Which we would avoid to some extent anyway since we aren't that important on the world stage. We do, however, still need to be able to balance our own books.

As far as the performance of our services goes, most things that I'm aware of are currently the worst they've ever been. 5 years after Labour came into power. Covid has of course had an impact, but it can't be blamed for everything, and the Covid managment that started off so well has also turned to crap now too.
Reply
#25
(19-10-2022, 05:26 PM)SueDonim Wrote:
(19-10-2022, 04:52 PM)king1 Wrote: I tend to agree with Praktica, cutting services to the point they are no longer performing the service they are required to do just isn't a smart move... but which comes first the chicken or the egg...

Liz Truss did well with tax cuts this year didn't she?

Covid has of course had an impact, but it can't be blamed for everything, and the Covid management that started off so well has also turned to crap now too.

so that is several times now i've heard that same line recently ( the "Covid management that started off so well has also turned to crap now to") - just so i'm clear on this everything was actually ok 'back then' , but now it is not? What is wrong with the covid management at this point in time?  Too many restrictions?
This world would be a perfect place if it wasn't for the people.

Sharesies | Buy Crypto | Surfshark VPN | Cloud Backup
Reply
#26
(19-10-2022, 05:26 PM)SueDonim Wrote:
(19-10-2022, 04:52 PM)king1 Wrote: I tend to agree with Praktica, cutting services to the point they are no longer performing the service they are required to do just isn't a smart move... but which comes first the chicken or the egg...

Liz Truss did well with tax cuts this year didn't she?

Just like in NZ, she can't work alone. Jacinda is the figurehead, but what she does has the backing of her party. And when National talk of tax cuts, hopefully the plan will include how to pay for them so we avoid the UK problems. Which we would avoid to some extent anyway since we aren't that important on the world stage. We do, however, still need to be able to balance our own books.

Balancing the books isn't the problem - balancing the books and maintaining the level of service that New Zealanders demand is the problem...  

and if you don't provide that level of service you will get the boot... it's pretty simple.  

I would like to think these days people tend to vote with their smarts, not based on wishy washy promises and election bribes.  One advantage of an aging population is most voters have been around long enough to see who is genuine and who is not, to see through the spin and BS.
This world would be a perfect place if it wasn't for the people.

Sharesies | Buy Crypto | Surfshark VPN | Cloud Backup
Reply
#27
(19-10-2022, 06:01 PM)king1 Wrote:
(19-10-2022, 05:26 PM)SueDonim Wrote: Just like in NZ, she can't work alone. Jacinda is the figurehead, but what she does has the backing of her party. And when National talk of tax cuts, hopefully the plan will include how to pay for them so we avoid the UK problems. Which we would avoid to some extent anyway since we aren't that important on the world stage. We do, however, still need to be able to balance our own books.

Balancing the books isn't the problem - balancing the books and maintaining the level of service that New Zealanders demand is the problem...  

and if you don't provide that level of service you will get the boot... it's pretty simple.  

I would like to think these days people tend to vote with their smarts, not based on wishy washy promises and election bribes.  One advantage of an aging population is most voters have been around long enough to see who is genuine and who is not, to see through the spin and BS.

If the news has it right, the Nats are going to look after those who are struggling; they're being very socially responsible. They're simply going to ask all those wonderfully generous, benevolent people out there, to donate to that particular aim. Rolleyes Rolleyes Rolleyes

I'm afraid that I laughed. Apparently, it is entirely true that we get more cynical as we get older... Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
in order to be old & wise, you must first be young & stupid. (I'm still working on that.)
Reply
#28
(19-10-2022, 05:36 PM)king1 Wrote:
(19-10-2022, 05:26 PM)SueDonim Wrote: Covid has of course had an impact, but it can't be blamed for everything, and the Covid management that started off so well has also turned to crap now too.

so that is several times now i've heard that same line recently ( the "Covid management that started off so well has also turned to crap now to") - just so i'm clear on this everything was actually ok 'back then' , but now it is not? What is wrong with the covid management at this point in time?  Too many restrictions?

Too few restrictions - there's a huge danger of an increase in numbers again. We had the traffic light system that was supposed to enable specific regions to go to red when their hospitals were unable to cope. So what happened? We had a whole winter at orange with the hospitals totally overwhelmed and no one went to red. Then suddenly it's all gone.

I know that the government had to show the severity of the impact to renew the order under which the rules functioned and maybe that was difficult, but not insurmountable. What we do have now is the hospital staff bailing out in droves from overwork, no one wearing masks any more, most shops seem to have removed the hand sanitiser at the door, the tourist ships are back and there's a new variant in the wings.

Which also brings me to why have we not got access to the new booster that protects against the more current variants?
Reply
#29
(19-10-2022, 06:16 PM)Lilith7 Wrote:
(19-10-2022, 06:01 PM)king1 Wrote: Balancing the books isn't the problem - balancing the books and maintaining the level of service that New Zealanders demand is the problem...  

and if you don't provide that level of service you will get the boot... it's pretty simple.  

I would like to think these days people tend to vote with their smarts, not based on wishy washy promises and election bribes.  One advantage of an aging population is most voters have been around long enough to see who is genuine and who is not, to see through the spin and BS.

If the news has it right, the Nats are going to look after those who are struggling; they're being very socially responsible. They're simply going to ask all those wonderfully generous, benevolent people out there, to donate to that particular aim. Rolleyes Rolleyes Rolleyes

I'm afraid that I laughed. Apparently, it is entirely true that we get more cynical as we get older... Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
Did I hear that correctly then on the news?

Essentially the Nats solution to poverty is to essentially setup a GoFundMe page for the citizens of New Zealand - This is going to look good on the world stage...
This world would be a perfect place if it wasn't for the people.

Sharesies | Buy Crypto | Surfshark VPN | Cloud Backup
Reply
#30
(19-10-2022, 06:24 PM)king1 Wrote:
(19-10-2022, 06:16 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: If the news has it right, the Nats are going to look after those who are struggling; they're being very socially responsible. They're simply going to ask all those wonderfully generous, benevolent people out there, to donate to that particular aim. Rolleyes Rolleyes Rolleyes

I'm afraid that I laughed. Apparently, it is entirely true that we get more cynical as we get older... Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
Did I hear that correctly then on the news?

Essentially the Nats solution to poverty is to essentially setup a GoFundMe page for the citizens of New Zealand - This is going to look good on the world stage...
Essentially promoting equilisation of wealth. Isn't that what socialism or communism aims to achieve? Seems a bit unusual for the Nat's to take that tack Rolleyes
Reply
#31
I'm assuming all Nat MPs will be donating their salaries to that Givealittle page to show willing then? Or is that sort of thing just for the other lot?

Nope, I'm afraid the Team Key lot broke my faith in any National government keeping promises or doing anything that protects the poor and vulnerable. As for the environment and Climate Change? Not a hope in hell...

However, with that in mind I have prepared my budget and household for lean times so should survive without the winter energy top up, and with continued price rises. So long as super keeps appearing and the sun pours down on my garden I should be okay no matter what political slant is applied from the top. After all, when needs are few wants can wait. That's the beauty of being passed all that expensive family/work/mortgage worry...
Reply
#32
(19-10-2022, 06:24 PM)king1 Wrote:
(19-10-2022, 06:16 PM)Lilith7 Wrote: If the news has it right, the Nats are going to look after those who are struggling; they're being very socially responsible. They're simply going to ask all those wonderfully generous, benevolent people out there, to donate to that particular aim. Rolleyes Rolleyes Rolleyes

I'm afraid that I laughed. Apparently, it is entirely true that we get more cynical as we get older... Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
Did I hear that correctly then on the news?

Essentially the Nats solution to poverty is to essentially setup a GoFundMe page for the citizens of New Zealand - This is going to look good on the world stage...

That seems to be more or less it; I'm sure all those kindly wealthy people just can't wait to donate to those who are far worse off.
Or something....

Rolleyes Big Grin Big Grin
in order to be old & wise, you must first be young & stupid. (I'm still working on that.)
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)