The next govt will be a National govt...

[C_T_Russell]

The Greens are not anti farming. They are pro improved farming. It would be foolish to be anti farming considering we would all starve without it. But it needs to become better, more efficient, less wasteful, and move - like the rest of us - into a new world that faces an existential threat to the survival of humanity...

and if farmers/producers could be required by law to sell 20% of their product locally that would be a bonus as well.  It's stupid having all this homegrown produce that we all have to pay global market prices just so the rich can get richer.  It will oversupply the NZ market, drive food prices down, and solve some of the food poverty problems.

The thing that really gets me is how our dairy products cost far less overseas than here in NZ!
Thats seriously messed up.

[harm_less]

In terms of lives saved, as against the result of letting covid run rampant, then the cost was always going to be worthwhile...  But yes, now comes the inevitable aftermath and trial by public opinion, otherwise known as a general election

I personally know people who have suffered depression due to almost loosing their business and are near suicide.
All for a virus that has a mortality rate well under 1% in most developed countries.
The social cost is far worse and is still going to hurt us years into the future.
The countries that let it run rampant have gotten over it much earlier and couldnt care less anymore.

The US was probably one of the countries that suffered the greatest loss of life and economic health by letting COVID19 "run rampant" and they are now implementing economic measures to solve the results of that approach which is shaking other country's economic situations severely. NZ and many other countries are looking down the barrel of massive inflationary pressures due to the US's poor management of the last few years' events. We are far from being over the effects of COVID19 on many fronts (e.g. long COVID, struggling businesses, lifestyle changes) but at least our own government implemented measures that drastically limited the immediate health impacts of COVID19.

Imagine for a moment that we had suffered a 1% mortality rate. That's 50,000 lives. Are you really suggesting that we would be in a better situation if NZ had taken the largely uncontrolled approach that some countries did? Really!?

[king1]

In terms of lives saved, as against the result of letting covid run rampant, then the cost was always going to be worthwhile...  But yes, now comes the inevitable aftermath and trial by public opinion, otherwise known as a general election

I personally know people who have suffered depression due to almost loosing their business and are near suicide.
All for a virus that has a mortality rate well under 1% in most developed countries.
The social cost is far worse and is still going to hurt us years into the future.
The countries that let it run rampant have gotten over it much earlier and couldnt care less anymore.

I don't think anyone can argue with the large number of the worlds population that actually died, somewhere north of 6.5 million people... 
I also don't think any sane person will argue that the number wouldn't have been magnitudes higher had all countries allowed it to just run rampant.

But I would suggest that the countries that did let it run rampant either couldn't care less in the first place about covid or their citizens,  and/or they didn't have the resources available to actually deal with it.  

Yes there will always be some social costs in a global pandemic, but the greater good is all that matters in the end...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

The 'greater good' though is one of those variable definitions. And truly, if someone is close to suicide over a business failure, they need counselling along with some serious mental health treatment. Not that it doesn't happen, but giving up your life HAS to be about way more than just a business going down the tubes...

[C_T_Russell]

I personally know people who have suffered depression due to almost loosing their business and are near suicide.
All for a virus that has a mortality rate well under 1% in most developed countries.
The social cost is far worse and is still going to hurt us years into the future.
The countries that let it run rampant have gotten over it much earlier and couldnt care less anymore.

The US was probably one of the countries that suffered the greatest loss of life and economic health by letting COVID19 "run rampant" and they are now implementing economic measures to solve the results of that approach which is shaking other country's economic situations severely. NZ and many other countries are looking down the barrel of massive inflationary pressures due to the US's poor management of the last few years' events. We are far from being over the effects of COVID19 on many fronts (e.g. long COVID, struggling businesses, lifestyle changes) but at least our own government implemented measures that drastically limited the immediate health impacts of COVID19.

Imagine for a moment that we had suffered a 1% mortality rate. That's 50,000 lives. Are you really suggesting that we would be in a better situation if NZ had taken the largely uncontrolled approach that some countries did? Really!?

We have probably lost(or will loose) that many or more from the vaccine anyway, I have a relative that dropped dead (sudden adult death syndrome?) perfectly fit and healthy, the doctors "think" it was his heart that gave out, but they didnt perform any form of autopsy to figure out the cause of death.
1% mortality rate was probably the worst case for an outbreak of the original Alpha strain, and mostly with elderly people with serious health conditions, notice why all the rest homes had the most fatalities, e.g rosewood, while virtually no cases in MIQ ever dies from covid?
I know things were bad in the US, but were still bad in Australia and Europe too.

NZ had some of the toughest restrictions, but our main advantage was we were an isolated country landlocked at sea.

I personally know people who have suffered depression due to almost loosing their business and are near suicide.
All for a virus that has a mortality rate well under 1% in most developed countries.
The social cost is far worse and is still going to hurt us years into the future.
The countries that let it run rampant have gotten over it much earlier and couldnt care less anymore.

I don't think anyone can argue with the large number of the worlds population that actually died, somewhere north of 6.5 million people... 
I also don't think any sane person will argue that the number wouldn't have been magnitudes higher had all countries allowed it to just run rampant.

But I would suggest that the countries that did let it run rampant either couldn't care less in the first place about covid or their citizens,  and/or they didn't have the resources available to actually deal with it.  

Yes there will always be some social costs in a global pandemic, but the greater good is all that matters in the end...

6.5 million people is not much at all, we loose that each year just with the flu.

This "greater good" thing really gets to me, much like the vaccine. All for the "greater good" but too bad if you die or receive life long health effects from that jab.

Kinda reminds me of this scene from hot fuzz!

[Oh_hunnihunni]

The US was probably one of the countries that suffered the greatest loss of life and economic health by letting COVID19 "run rampant" and they are now implementing economic measures to solve the results of that approach which is shaking other country's economic situations severely. NZ and many other countries are looking down the barrel of massive inflationary pressures due to the US's poor management of the last few years' events. We are far from being over the effects of COVID19 on many fronts (e.g. long COVID, struggling businesses, lifestyle changes) but at least our own government implemented measures that drastically limited the immediate health impacts of COVID19.

Imagine for a moment that we had suffered a 1% mortality rate. That's 50,000 lives. Are you really suggesting that we would be in a better situation if NZ had taken the largely uncontrolled approach that some countries did? Really!?

We have probably lost(or will loose) that many or more from the vaccine anyway, I have a relative that dropped dead (sudden adult death syndrome?) perfectly fit and healthy, the doctors "think" it was his heart that gave out, but they didnt perform any form of autopsy to figure out the cause of death.
1% mortality rate was probably the worst case for an outbreak of the original Alpha strain, and mostly with elderly people with serious health conditions, notice why all the rest homes had the most fatalities, e.g rosewood, while virtually no cases in MIQ ever dies from covid?
I know things were bad in the US, but were still bad in Australia and Europe too.

NZ had some of the toughest restrictions, but our main advantage was we were an isolated country landlocked at sea.

I don't think anyone can argue with the large number of the worlds population that actually died, somewhere north of 6.5 million people... 
I also don't think any sane person will argue that the number wouldn't have been magnitudes higher had all countries allowed it to just run rampant.

But I would suggest that the countries that did let it run rampant either couldn't care less in the first place about covid or their citizens,  and/or they didn't have the resources available to actually deal with it.  

Yes there will always be some social costs in a global pandemic, but the greater good is all that matters in the end...

6.5 million people is not much at all, we loose that each year just with the flu.

This "greater good" thing really gets to me, much like the vaccine. All for the "greater good" but too bad if you die or receive life long health effects from that jab.

Kinda reminds me of this scene from hot fuzz!

6.5m is not many at all?

Unless of course a few of them are ours.

[harm_less]

The US was probably one of the countries that suffered the greatest loss of life and economic health by letting COVID19 "run rampant" and they are now implementing economic measures to solve the results of that approach which is shaking other country's economic situations severely. NZ and many other countries are looking down the barrel of massive inflationary pressures due to the US's poor management of the last few years' events. We are far from being over the effects of COVID19 on many fronts (e.g. long COVID, struggling businesses, lifestyle changes) but at least our own government implemented measures that drastically limited the immediate health impacts of COVID19.

Imagine for a moment that we had suffered a 1% mortality rate. That's 50,000 lives. Are you really suggesting that we would be in a better situation if NZ had taken the largely uncontrolled approach that some countries did? Really!?

We have probably lost(or will loose) that many or more from the vaccine anyway, I have a relative that dropped dead (sudden adult death syndrome?) perfectly fit and healthy, the doctors "think" it was his heart that gave out, but they didnt perform any form of autopsy to figure out the cause of death.
1% mortality rate was probably the worst case for an outbreak of the original Alpha strain, and mostly with elderly people with serious health conditions, notice why all the rest homes had the most fatalities, e.g rosewood, while virtually no cases in MIQ ever dies from covid?
I know things were bad in the US, but were still bad in Australia and Europe too.

NZ had some of the toughest restrictions, but our main advantage was we were an isolated country landlocked at sea.

Our isolation was a big advantage as it provided us with both insulation from imported exposure and a delay factor that allowed us to learn from other country's (bad) strategies. We made good use of these factors by designing our COVID19 strategy to capitalise on these factors. That's the reason we rate 125th in the COVID deaths per 1M of population. We could have done so much worse.

Sort the 'Deaths /1m population' column to see a ranking in that respect: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries (Incidentally USA is 16th and Aussie 126th FWIW).

Right from the start COVID found the weakest in terms of health in a per person basis but also the weaknesses in so many other aspects (e.g. businesses' coping ability, healthcare sector's limitations, society's resilience to crisises, governments' ability to ensure their citizens' safety, the wisdom of rapid international travel, etc). The virus has far from finished with us and you can be sure there will be more coming along real soon so best treat this one as a test run because the next episode may well be a whole lot more transmissible and/or lethal.

[king1]

6.5 million is a lot of people to die...

290000-650000 die from flu every year
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/11-...a-strategy

Might pay to fact check CT before chucking out random numbers in support of dodgy conspiracy theories

and the greater good has served humanity well for millennia - it is a basic survival requirement - but yes those on the wrong side are never happy about it...