Cyclone Gabrielle

[Oh_hunnihunni]

There was a million raised in twelve hours by Stuff too. But also, that second firefighter's family could probably do with some help. ACC will cover many costs but it is never enough in the event of the sudden death of a young person. What a terrible price the families of these two men have paid for their community spirit...

[harm_less]

There was a million raised in twelve hours by Stuff too. But also, that second firefighter's family could probably do with some help. ACC will cover many costs but it is never enough in the event of the sudden death of a young person. What a terrible price the families of these two men have paid for their community spirit...

The Give a Little link i posted was the Stuff one. Donations have now topped $1.2M

[Lilith7]

I've been keeping an eye open for a site to make cyclone relief donations, but there doesn't seem to be anything set up yet.  Does anyone have a link?  Civil Defence say that they will be setting something up, but there is nothing on their web site yet.

Trademe has a way to donate now.

[C_T_Russell]

"This one in a hundred years storm." - Soon to be every year storms.

Felt that huge earthquake by Kapiti Island near Wellington down here in Chch, a strong slow motion rolling back and forwards, almost felt as if it wasn't happening but the movement in each direction continued for some distance, maybe the longest in terms of distance I have felt.  The whole country must have moved back and forward in slow motion.

Sadly they are already playing the blame game and playing the climate change "card" again...
Someone has to be responsible, so they are blaming us. Its an act of nature, time to move on and get over it.
I feel sorry for those affected, but its not like we have these every year. Its a fact of life that everyone has to plan ahead for these sorts of events, especially if your industry is affected, you have to accept you will have a loss every now and again.
We cant control the weather. Thankfully we cant be held responsible for earthquakes.

Everyone quickly forgets bola. That was devastating and the best part of 4 decades ago.
This was only a category 2 storm I believe. We have had way worse.
These millennials indoctrinated in school know no better. They were never around to witness past cyclones NZ faced.
Cyclone Dinah back in 1967 was way worse than this.
1981 we had the Ohinemuri river flood that wiped out all of the settlement of Waikino, leaving behind only the hotel. Paeroa was also flooded.
This gorge always floods and causes road closures every couple of years or so, its extremely common.
Even with all that rain, and the river didnt flood, it only briefly did during the cyclone which was expected.
It takes a huge amount of rain to give us a 1981 scenario and we still haven't got to those levels again.
Then we see Hipkins blame climate change on the Auckland floods!
Is he dreaming? Show me the scientific proof the storm was caused by "climate change"?

My father grew up in Auckland and said that floods were a peridioc thing, they happened all the time.
   
Only its a big deal these days because the place is over populated and people build on the edge of cliffs (or below cliffs) with poor stormwater management and drainage.
It could have been largely avoided with better planning.

Who here can remember the Otorohanga floods in 1957? I doubt many at all. And we hear these people interviewed on the TV saying how they have never seen it flood "like this" in Te Kuiti before, well sorry mate, you are just too young.
Dont want to ruin it for you, but I had family survive that flood and it was a big disaster at the time.
Just a quick google will show you the photos of the floods in Te Kuiti and Otorohanga.

Nuff said, if climate change was causing this rain, then it was doing it the best part of 100 years ago too.
Cyclones are always a thing and TBH i think we were well overdue anyway, The pacific always gets them each summer, but most avoid our mainland or just brush past at best. Climate change does not affect the direction a cyclone is going to track, its pure luck.

[Olive]

Here's a link to the NZ Red Cross disaster fund donation page. https://www.redcross.org.nz/support-us/o...ster-fund/

[Lilith7]

"This one in a hundred years storm." - Soon to be every year storms.

Felt that huge earthquake by Kapiti Island near Wellington down here in Chch, a strong slow motion rolling back and forwards, almost felt as if it wasn't happening but the movement in each direction continued for some distance, maybe the longest in terms of distance I have felt.  The whole country must have moved back and forward in slow motion.

Sadly they are already playing the blame game and playing the climate change "card" again...
Someone has to be responsible, so they are blaming us. Its an act of nature, time to move on and get over it.
I feel sorry for those affected, but its not like we have these every year. Its a fact of life that everyone has to plan ahead for these sorts of events, especially if your industry is affected, you have to accept you will have a loss every now and again.
We cant control the weather. Thankfully we cant be held responsible for earthquakes.

Everyone quickly forgets bola. That was devastating and the best part of 4 decades ago.
This was only a category 2 storm I believe. We have had way worse.
These millennials indoctrinated in school know no better. They were never around to witness past cyclones NZ faced.
Cyclone Dinah back in 1967 was way worse than this.
1981 we had the Ohinemuri river flood that wiped out all of the settlement of Waikino, leaving behind only the hotel. Paeroa was also flooded.
This gorge always floods and causes road closures every couple of years or so, its extremely common.
Even with all that rain, and the river didnt flood, it only briefly did during the cyclone which was expected.
It takes a huge amount of rain to give us a 1981 scenario and we still haven't got to those levels again.
Then we see Hipkins blame climate change on the Auckland floods!
Is he dreaming? Show me the scientific proof the storm was caused by "climate change"?

My father grew up in Auckland and said that floods were a peridioc thing, they happened all the time.

Only its a big deal these days because the place is over populated and people build on the edge of cliffs (or below cliffs) with poor stormwater management and drainage.
It could have been largely avoided with better planning.

Who here can remember the Otorohanga floods in 1957? I doubt many at all. And we hear these people interviewed on the TV saying how they have never seen it flood "like this" in Te Kuiti before, well sorry mate, you are just too young.
Dont want to ruin it for you, but I had family survive that flood and it was a big disaster at the time.
Just a quick google will show you the photos of the floods in Te Kuiti and Otorohanga.

Nuff said, if climate change was causing this rain, then it was doing it the best part of 100 years ago too.
Cyclones are always a thing and TBH i think we were well overdue anyway, The pacific always gets them each summer, but most avoid our mainland or just brush past at best. Climate change does not affect the direction a cyclone is going to track, its pure luck.

"Sadly they are already playing the blame game and playing the climate change "card" again..."  



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9t_KDGqOmE

[king1]

Well I think the argument is that they are becoming more severe and more frequent - we may not be seeing that at the moment in little ol' NZ but globally it is a thing, so logic would suggest it is only a matter of time.

[zqwerty]

C_T_Russell does not seem to understand the physics of the situation, which in essence is quite simple really, any physical activity is never 100% efficient, in fact theoretical efficiency for the Internal Combustion Motor, absolute best efficiency is round about 37%, perhaps a bit more, but never reaching 50%, this means that all the losses result in heating of the Earth's Eco system, now the Earth is massive but there are plenty of us, billions more in the last 50 years all being encouraged to get busy and consume, earning money by working, using machines thereby generating losses in the system which results in more heating of the earth - besides all the pollution effects.

This heating results in more energetic weather systems and therefore extremes which were not as prevalent in the past.  This lost energy into the weather systems means more energetic cyclones traveling further from the equatorial regions into temperate zones more frequently and causing the devastation we have just seen more often.

In actual fact this is well-known, all one has to do is read about it, all skeptics show that they lack both knowledge and reading ability or are so bloody-minded that they won't accept drastically changed attitudes, seemingly almost believing in a benevolent "god" that is looking after us.

The petrol companies which are partially responsible for the increasing weather chaos around us knew about this effect in the fifties and did their best to cover up, yes they fully understood what was going to happen but of course profit takes precedent over everything.  Their cracking of the crude oil in the refining industries is one of the main causes of anthropomorphic anthropogenic global warming.

These people are criminals and responsible for the chaos to come, think millions of refugees trying to find somewhere safe to live, migrating from increasingly arid equatorial regions to more temperate zones already full of people who won't want more as the initial novelty of helping poor desperate people wears off.  It's already happening.

[SueDonim]

The petrol companies which are partially responsible for the increasing weather chaos around us knew about this effect in the fifties and did their best to cover up, yes they fully understood what was going to happen but of course profit takes precedent over everything.  Their cracking of the crude oil in the refining industries is one of the main causes of anthropomorphic global warming.

These people are criminals and responsible for the chaos to come, think millions of refugees trying to find somewhere safe to live, migrating from increasingly arid equatorial regions to more temperate zones already full of people who won't want more as the initial novelty of helping poor desperate people wears off.  It's already happening.

The [government and councils] which are partially responsible for the [impact of] increasing weather chaos around us knew about [the role and risk of flood plains, building on cliff tops and at the base of unstable cliffs and] did their best to cover up[. Y]es they fully understood what was going to happen but of course profit takes preceden[ce] over everything.  Their [ongoing push to put houses wherever they will fit] is one of the main [risks from] anthropomorphic global warming.

[When the country was first settled, the flat fertile land near the coast seemed like a great place to live. We now understand more about tsunamis, earthquake liquefaction and have witnessed over and over the sheer amount of water that can come down from the hills. Why oh why are we STILL building on the flood plains? Even where it will be at or below sea level in 100 years?]

[Olive]

Did anyone watch the PM's press conference in Hawkes Bay this afternoon? Who were those confrontational reporters (I wouldn't flatter them by calling them journalists) ? There was one man in particular who asked the PM if he was "comfortable" with the situation. What? Also a young-sounding woman who kept interrupting.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Climate change is a reality. The cyclone was exacerbated by warmer than 'normal' seas. We are going to get more weather like this. We also have far too much invested on and beneath vulnerable land. We need to look seriously at remediation to prevent ongoing costs and human misery here at home, as well as in other countries.

The reality is we knew this was coming back in the fifties and sixties. Now it is too late to stop it, we can only get ready to cope with it. And we are all going to have to pay for it. Now, and in the future.

And anyone who thinks otherwise is simply the human equivalent of the ostrich.

---

The petrol companies which are partially responsible for the increasing weather chaos around us knew about this effect in the fifties and did their best to cover up, yes they fully understood what was going to happen but of course profit takes precedent over everything.  Their cracking of the crude oil in the refining industries is one of the main causes of anthropomorphic global warming.

These people are criminals and responsible for the chaos to come, think millions of refugees trying to find somewhere safe to live, migrating from increasingly arid equatorial regions to more temperate zones already full of people who won't want more as the initial novelty of helping poor desperate people wears off.  It's already happening.

The [government and councils] which are partially responsible for the [impact of] increasing weather chaos around us knew about [the role and risk of flood plains, building on cliff tops and at the base of unstable cliffs and] did their best to cover up[. Y]es they fully understood what was going to happen but of course profit takes preceden[ce] over everything.  Their [ongoing push to put houses wherever they will fit] is one of the main [risks from] anthropomorphic global warming.

[When the country was first settled, the flat fertile land near the coast seemed like a great place to live. We now understand more about tsunamis, earthquake liquefaction and have witnessed over and over the sheer amount of water that can come down from the hills. Why oh why are we STILL building on the flood plains? Even where it will be at or below sea level in 100 years?]

Or sooner?

Today I came back up the Memorial Drive bit of Lake Road on the North Shore. It is a stretch of ancient pohutukawa with planted crosses underneath each commemorating a local fallen soldier, each planted up with annuals in appropriate colours, and with seats at intervals. It is a beautiful place. And it is on a flood plain between the inner and outer harbour. And one of only two access points to Devonport, the naval base, and a lot of heritage housing and commerce.

Trees, big trees are down all over the place. The concrete edgings to the flower beds are all gone, torn up and dumped, the plantings are gone, the seats are pretty much destroyed, there is mud and branches and leaves everywhere, and work crews starting the clean up. It will all be restored, but should it? The cost will be significant. And it is the second time it has happened this year.

It will not be the last. I do not envy those who must decide what we do next.

That is the kind of decisionmaking that we have to talk about

[zqwerty]

Making a fast buck and keeping an eye open for the main chance is the prevailing philosophy from the past, any idea that anyone or any guardian government entity was planning, or was responsible, for the guiding of the population to only build in safe places is laughable and naive.

To add, believing that insurance companies will honour their policies is also laughable as we learnt down here in Christchurch after the earthquakes.

[alpha111]

I can remember working on the Moutoa sluice gates in 1960-61 on the lower Manawatu river. This was designed to control the potential for flooding. Wilkins and Davies were very strict about the quality of the workmanship unlike many firms today. And the Ministry of Works monitored the building standards.
Before that farms used to flood regularly between Shannon and Foxton and there were scenes like today.
Regrettably the development of these mitigation schemes around the country ceased.

[nzoomed]

I can remember working on the Moutoa sluice gates in 1960-61 on the lower Manawatu river. This was designed to control the potential for flooding. Wilkins and Davies were very strict about the quality of the workmanship unlike many firms today. And the Ministry of Works monitored the building standards.
Before that farms used to flood regularly between Shannon and Foxton and there were scenes like today.
Regrettably the development of these mitigation schemes around the country ceased.

I imagine its going to be a good shakeup thats needed and more funds get directed to flood mitigation such as stopbanks.
Sadly its too late for these affected areas, but any floodplains could benefit from them and would pay off on any future weather events.

I still cant believe how we got away with it here in Tauranga, we didnt get anywhere near as much rain as we did the other week, but the wind was rather high.
Its a phenomenal amount of rain to fall in a short space of time like what happened on the east coast.

[Kenj]

Yay, we have power after 4days 7hrs! Just fired everthing up and gosh, it feels good. We are in a real shite area for cellular connection when everything is working well but with towers being out, we have been restricted to texts.
Son in his big work ute came over on Thursday with stuff to help us out, thru deep floodwaters between Hastings and Napier and over the only bridge that was open. When he went to go back they had shut the bloody bridge again. he finally got home a tad under 12hrs after he left there.
He said it is really bad out there and will take years to get our fruit and vegetable industry back to what it was before the flood.

We are just thankful that we are OK and feel for the folk who have lost everything material value and worst of all, family members who died because of the flood.

Ken

[harm_less]

One aspect that comes to mind is that much of the reports of severe flood damage to dwellings and horticultural properties are from those areas that use rich alluvial soils to their advantage. Spoiler alert, alluvial soils have their origins from past river deposition. The rivers have been there before and they have just made a return visit. This shouldn't come as any surprise.

[Lilith7]

"Are you guys the navy? nah, we're just three Maori boys.'
The good guys, who rescued a family from their roof top.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/weather...e-revealed

[C_T_Russell]

The sad thing ive heard today is that there is likely a good 1000+ people dead, there are unconfirmed reports of them running out of body bags and that all the morgues are full. Hospital's capacity is about 60 and the temporary facility set up using shipping containers is apparently full.

I really feel sorry for the families affected, this will go down as NZ's worst disaster in history.
No doubt there will be some serious questions on how the response has been handled.

One aspect that comes to mind is that much of the reports of severe flood damage to dwellings and horticultural properties are from those areas that use rich alluvial soils to their advantage. Spoiler alert, alluvial soils have their origins from past river deposition. The rivers have been there before and they have just made a return visit. This shouldn't come as any surprise.

Exactly, they have had similar floods a good 50+ years ago its nothing new, but hey climate change is the culprit this time round.

[zqwerty]

Nope nowhere near that number are dead, at present there are only 346 missing, ie uncontactable.

"Cyclone Gabrielle – Eastern District update, Wednesday 22 February
1 min read
News article photos, audio and videos (1 items)
Police talking to concerned residents in Clive.
Item 1 of 1

Home > News > Cyclone Gabrielle – Eastern District update, Wednesday 22 February

In the 24 hours to midday today, Police in Eastern District conducted more than 600 prevention activities, including reassurance patrols and proactive engagements with storm-hit communities.

Nineteen people were arrested and charged with 32 offences.

The arrests were in Gisborne (eight), Hastings (six), Napier (four) and Wairoa (1).

Charges primarily relate to shoplifting, assault and family harm.

There were three charges for burglary.

An additional 145 police staff and the Eagle helicopter remain in Eastern District.

The number of uncontactable people continues to reduce and currently sits at 346.

ENDS

Issued by Police Media Centre

https://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/...cmin=&cmax=

C_T_Russell, beware, right wing media are full of inaccuracies and general crap reporting.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

We had over two years of thinking time during covid. Lots of talk about how we could prepare for a new normal, as we watched the appalling images from around the world. And then the covid thing started to fade and we came back into the 'new normal' that soon looked pretty indistinguishable from the old one for most of us.

I wonder how long it will be, for those of us who have escaped the traumatising experience of the cyclone, to slide back into the same old same old, pretending king tides are an unusual thing, and flooding is down to old infrastructure, landslips down to some other folk cutting down trees or building too close to the edge.

So long as it isn't our property. Our family photos ruined. Our grandkids on their roofs.

So we're okay, Jack., while the tide turns.