Should we let children identify as animals?

[Lilith7]

Exactly! So much fun...

I was horse mad at the time...

---

Logical answer is no, the article is paywalled, but you get the idea what direction this is going.
And yes litter boxes are now a thing in NZ schools.
I have a reliable source who has a child attend a school in the Wellington region and they tell me their childs class has got one.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-listener/...7KUU3XP5M/

With all due respect - bollocks.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

You know CT, that hobby horses are childrens toys right?

[king1]

Logical answer is no, the article is paywalled, but you get the idea what direction this is going.
And yes litter boxes are now a thing in NZ schools.
I have a reliable source who has a child attend a school in the Wellington region and they tell me their childs class has got one.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-listener/...7KUU3XP5M/

I'm not sure that article suggests anything like what you allude to CT - if anything I would say the author is somewhat mocking the claim of litter boxes...

here's a snippet from it, doesn't seem to be paywalled for me.

Playing at being animals, sports stars, TV characters and cartoons, cowboys and the like is developmentally healthy. Photo / Getty Images

OPINION: To take it from some media reports, the new consciousness of gender fluidity has broadened to embrace the animal kingdom. Children are now flocking to identify as animals.

To take it from other reports, this is largely an alt-right hoax intended to panic kindly liberals, and the world’s schools are not, in fact, putting out litter trays and nosebags to cater for their self-proclaimed cat, dog and horse students.

To take it from the children themselves, longing to be a favourite animal is a normal part of being a kid, but if some adults suddenly want to indulge this fun fantasy, then woof, woof: let’s see how far we can take this.

The writer knows of one canny three-year-old who identifies as a fox, because foxes are nocturnal and he takes strenuous issue with his ordained bedtime hours.


There is a potentially serious side to this, which is why a British school is in crisis after a staffer was taped defending a little girl’s right to “be” a cat. The teacher assistant told other children who didn’t believe she was a cat that they were being meanly unsympathetic.

Playing at being animals, sports stars, TV characters and cartoons, cowboys and the like is developmentally healthy. But what are adults to do when a child genuinely appears to believe their bipedal body is wrong for them, and persists beyond the normal phase of such a preoccupation? Could it be a sign of abuse?

If not, cognitive behavioural therapy might suggest itself, but some grown-ups apparently think it kinder to accept the child’s chosen creature.

Trouble is, it’s hard to make other, non-animal-identifying children grasp the appropriate social nuances. As is well known by any parent who has been mortified by their offspring asking at the supermarket, in an outdoors voice, “Why is that man over there so fat?”, children are apt to state their minds. When the English schoolchildren argued with the teacher aide that the girl could not be a cat, her push-back upset them. Grown-ups aren’t supposed to pretend silly things – that’s the children’s job.

However, there is a well-established sub-culture of adults who do, to varying degrees, pretend to be animals. Activities such as cosplay and being a “furry” entail dressing and acting as real or cartoon animals for extended periods and even getting cosmetic modifications such as whisker implants. This is hardly more eccentric than staging battle re-enactments, dressing up like Star Trek crew or lavishing hours on creating model-railway scenery, as legions of people do. Fantasy can be engrossing and an antidote to real-life stressors.

Some people might secretly be animal-human hybrids. We all know someone so tail-thumpingly buoyant and happy to be alive that there’s surely a bit of labrador in their lovely soul. There are those so bristling with feline entitlement, you can practically see a stripy tail lashing and twitching behind them when they’re thwarted.

For the elders of children simply pushing the quadruped-identity button for the craic, a few suggestions.

Our fox boy’s parents might cash in on the fact that foxes are omnivores as an incentive to get him to eat his fruit and veges.

And the following might reawaken junior Homo sapienic urges:

“Sorry, darling, but we’ll have to put you in kennels when we go to Fiji these holidays.”

“We’re having pizza, but you enjoy your Whiskas, sweetie.”

“You can come to the beach, but you’ll have to stay on a leash.”

“It’s hay, but you can have a sugar lump or a carrot later as a special treat.”

“Sorry, honey, but horses aren’t allowed to play netball. Have you thought about training for the Melbourne Cup?”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-listener/...7KUU3XP5M/

[oldschooler]

Ummmm, except that child play is a vital piece of post modernist thinking if you look into educational philosophy, as I was forced to do at length not so long ago. Letting children have free rein of their imaginations with regard to their development of self, gender and identity is a common theme.

And after all, is it so far away from adults having spirit animals to guide them, or imagining an entire pantheon of gods and angels and devils to do the same.

The day we let raving idiots like Piers Morgan be taken seriously is the day we should abandon all sense of being intelligent beings and go join the rabbits in the fields.

But I am not against child's play.  Childs play has been around long, long before post modernism.  The issue is that children are being coerced.  It is not about play it is about play being crossed out and real being inserted.  It is the same mentality as pregnant persons or a pregnant man.  Or do you believe the 'pregnant man' should be treated as a man or a woman when they go into hospital with compications?  What is a woman?  Or does the pregnant man suddenly have a uterus after all?  Or maybe you are in favour of the doctors and specialists playing and pretending instead of following the science and real biology?  Or is that up for grabs in the play department as well according to you?  It is about consistency.  Oh and you accuse Piers Morgan of being a raving idiot.  How do you know you are not one?  You speak of idiot and in the next breath intelligence but who are you to say which is which and is it all about whether you agree with their stance?  You are sounding like speech police.  Who are you to say that intelligence is real and is not merely play?  How intolerant is that?  But then post modernism was never really about tolerance.  It's about no objective right and wrong.  Right?  But you are too sure you are right not merely concerning yourself but concerning others!  You are certainly displaying those intolerant characteristics.  Like I said: (though I am about to say it in another way but same idea) postmodernism will always fall on its own sword.  The other thing that strikes me is that you elevate the right of the child to have free reign but there is a scoffing of sorts re what you call adults and ''imagining an entire pantheon of gods''.  And let's just say that these adults believe this right?  I mean really believe it ok?  You are all for the child ''development of self..."  Right?  But only so long as they DON'T follow the biology.  Right?  Why not the child into adult life?  Adult?  Why do you even speak of developing.  The child could still be a child at age 60.  Why not if that is their self identity?   Ok with that?  Pay no taxes!  Fully funded by the state....  You really need to spend more time constructing your posts as there is way too much inconsistency.  Ah!  inconsistency!  Consistency does't fit the paradigm of post modernism.  Right?  That's where the post modernist borrows from other paradigms to shout out a judgement like yours re Piers Morgan.  And that's because you cannot live within the strait jacket of post modernism which pretends to be tolerant.  Play again!  And that's it actually: post modernism is a game of pretend.  A house of cards.  Do you see that?  Now try to be consistent in your reply so no judgements and abuse such as "raving idiot" oh and you are not to think that either.

[king1]

Ummmm, except that child play is a vital piece of post modernist thinking if you look into educational philosophy, as I was forced to do at length not so long ago. Letting children have free rein of their imaginations with regard to their development of self, gender and identity is a common theme.

And after all, is it so far away from adults having spirit animals to guide them, or imagining an entire pantheon of gods and angels and devils to do the same.

The day we let raving idiots like Piers Morgan be taken seriously is the day we should abandon all sense of being intelligent beings and go join the rabbits in the fields.

But I am not against child's play.  Childs play has been around long, long before post modernism.  The issue is that children are being coerced.  It is not about play it is about play being crossed out and real being inserted.  It is the same mentality as pregnant persons or a pregnant man. 

Children are being coerced into identifying as animal?  makes no sense whatsoever.

But I have the popcorn on standby...

[oldschooler]

YOU wrote: "Children are being coerced into identifying as animal?
Your choice to take what I have said and added to it but dishonest. Children are being coerced. That is fact. But then you state "makes no sense whatsoever."
I agree. It makes no sense to modify what I said. If you looked more closely instead of taking a bit and adding to what has been written you might see what I am saying.
But then you are not to be taken seriously because of your "But I have the popcorn on standby..." showing to all that you don't make sense.

[king1]

YOU wrote: "Children are being coerced into identifying as animal?   
Your choice to take what I have said and added to it but dishonest.  Children are being coerced.  That is fact.  But then you state "makes no sense whatsoever."
I agree.  It makes no sense to modify what I said.  If you looked more closely instead of taking a bit and adding to what has been written you might see what I am saying.
But then you are not to be taken seriously because of your "But I have the popcorn on standby..." showing to all that you don't make sense.

Well it was a genuine question, with a question mark no less... which means I was questioning if that is what you were saying, because that is what it read like given the context. 

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what the children are being coerced into then?

[oldschooler]

And now you wish to be taken seriously? Popcorn? I have written sufficiently. A popcorn reply results in me saying check it out for yourself even though I doubt you will. Not genuine.
As for context. No.

[king1]

And now you wish to be taken seriously?  Popcorn?  I have written sufficiently.  A popcorn reply results in me saying check it out for yourself even though I doubt you will.  Not genuine.
As for context.  No.

ah the ol' do your own research line.  I shall remain in the dark then...

The popcorn comment was in expectation of hunnis reply, whom you posted to originally.  I apologise if I have offended thee...

[zqwerty]

"But I have the popcorn on standby..."

is a standard internet response conveying the hope of being able to observe an interesting event or occurrence whilst eating imaginary popcorn, not really insulting just an amusing retort.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Ummmm, except that child play is a vital piece of post modernist thinking if you look into educational philosophy, as I was forced to do at length not so long ago. Letting children have free rein of their imaginations with regard to their development of self, gender and identity is a common theme.

And after all, is it so far away from adults having spirit animals to guide them, or imagining an entire pantheon of gods and angels and devils to do the same.

The day we let raving idiots like Piers Morgan be taken seriously is the day we should abandon all sense of being intelligent beings and go join the rabbits in the fields.

But I am not against child's play.  Childs play has been around long, long before post modernism.  The issue is that children are being coerced.  It is not about play it is about play being crossed out and real being inserted.  It is the same mentality as pregnant persons or a pregnant man.  Or do you believe the 'pregnant man' should be treated as a man or a woman when they go into hospital with compications?  What is a woman?  Or does the pregnant man suddenly have a uterus after all?  Or maybe you are in favour of the doctors and specialists playing and pretending instead of following the science and real biology?  Or is that up for grabs in the play department as well according to you?  It is about consistency.  Oh and you accuse Piers Morgan of being a raving idiot.  How do you know you are not one?  You speak of idiot and in the next breath intelligence but who are you to say which is which and is it all about whether you agree with their stance?  You are sounding like speech police.  Who are you to say that intelligence is real and is not merely play?  How intolerant is that?  But then post modernism was never really about tolerance.  It's about no objective right and wrong.  Right?  But you are too sure you are right not merely concerning yourself but concerning others!  You are certainly displaying those intolerant characteristics.  Like I said: (though I am about to say it in another way but same idea) postmodernism will always fall on its own sword.  The other thing that strikes me is that you elevate the right of the child to have free reign but there is a scoffing of sorts re what you call adults and ''imagining an entire pantheon of gods''.  And let's just say that these adults believe this right?  I mean really believe it ok?  You are all for the child ''development of self..."  Right?  But only so long as they DON'T follow the biology.  Right?  Why not the child into adult life?  Adult?  Why do you even speak of developing.  The child could still be a child at age 60.  Why not if that is their self identity?   Ok with that?  Pay no taxes!  Fully funded by the state....  You really need to spend more time constructing your posts as there is way too much inconsistency.  Ah!  inconsistency!  Consistency does't fit the paradigm of post modernism.  Right?  That's where the post modernist borrows from other paradigms to shout out a judgement like yours re Piers Morgan.  And that's because you cannot live within the strait jacket of post modernism which pretends to be tolerant.  Play again!  And that's it actually: post modernism is a game of pretend.  A house of cards.  Do you see that?  Now try to be consistent in your reply so no judgements and abuse such as "raving idiot" oh and you are not to think that either.

TLDR

Children are coerced every day and in every way because of the eternal power inbalance that exists between child and adult.

Oh, and I apologise for casting aspersions upon your personal hero figure, I had no idea he was that important to you.

---

And now you wish to be taken seriously?  Popcorn?  I have written sufficiently.  A popcorn reply results in me saying check it out for yourself even though I doubt you will.  Not genuine.
As for context.  No.

ah the ol' do your own research line.  I shall remain in the dark then...

The popcorn comment was in expectation of hunnis reply, whom you posted to originally.  I apologise if I have offended thee...

I too, choose the other cheek, lol.

[Lilith7]

Ummmm, except that child play is a vital piece of post modernist thinking if you look into educational philosophy, as I was forced to do at length not so long ago. Letting children have free rein of their imaginations with regard to their development of self, gender and identity is a common theme.

And after all, is it so far away from adults having spirit animals to guide them, or imagining an entire pantheon of gods and angels and devils to do the same.

The day we let raving idiots like Piers Morgan be taken seriously is the day we should abandon all sense of being intelligent beings and go join the rabbits in the fields.

But I am not against child's play.  Childs play has been around long, long before post modernism.  The issue is that children are being coerced.  It is not about play it is about play being crossed out and real being inserted.  It is the same mentality as pregnant persons or a pregnant man.  Or do you believe the 'pregnant man' should be treated as a man or a woman when they go into hospital with compications?  What is a woman?  Or does the pregnant man suddenly have a uterus after all?  Or maybe you are in favour of the doctors and specialists playing and pretending instead of following the science and real biology?  Or is that up for grabs in the play department as well according to you?  It is about consistency.  Oh and you accuse Piers Morgan of being a raving idiot.  How do you know you are not one?  You speak of idiot and in the next breath intelligence but who are you to say which is which and is it all about whether you agree with their stance?  You are sounding like speech police.  Who are you to say that intelligence is real and is not merely play?  How intolerant is that?  But then post modernism was never really about tolerance.  It's about no objective right and wrong.  Right?  But you are too sure you are right not merely concerning yourself but concerning others!  You are certainly displaying those intolerant characteristics.  Like I said: (though I am about to say it in another way but same idea) postmodernism will always fall on its own sword.  The other thing that strikes me is that you elevate the right of the child to have free reign but there is a scoffing of sorts re what you call adults and ''imagining an entire pantheon of gods''.  And let's just say that these adults believe this right?  I mean really believe it ok?  You are all for the child ''development of self..."  Right?  But only so long as they DON'T follow the biology.  Right?  Why not the child into adult life?  Adult?  Why do you even speak of developing.  The child could still be a child at age 60.  Why not if that is their self identity?   Ok with that?  Pay no taxes!  Fully funded by the state....  You really need to spend more time constructing your posts as there is way too much inconsistency.  Ah!  inconsistency!  Consistency does't fit the paradigm of post modernism.  Right?  That's where the post modernist borrows from other paradigms to shout out a judgement like yours re Piers Morgan.  And that's because you cannot live within the strait jacket of post modernism which pretends to be tolerant.  Play again!  And that's it actually: post modernism is a game of pretend.  A house of cards.  Do you see that?  Now try to be consistent in your reply so no judgements and abuse such as "raving idiot" oh and you are not to think that either.

Oh dear. 

OK so where exactly are these children who are being coerced? Here in NZ? In America, the UK, Europe? Have you actually met any of them or are you going by what you've read online or seen somewhere on TV news?


While I look forward to the reality of 'pregnant men' with great anticipation, (& in fairness, it has to be said, with  some hilarity) this hasn't actually happened as yet, despite some on the far right in America warning that it might/has/any minute now happen.

Incidentally imo Piers Morgan is a blithering idiot who has been described as an 'empathy free zone'.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Our children have very few rights, but a lot of Must Do things, which involve adults using various methods of coercion to achieve. From vaccinations, to clothing, to socialisation and education - any parent worth their salt understands this and does their damndest to make that coercion as gentle as possible.

Religion is coercion, education is coercion, heavens simply living in a community is rife with examples.
If you don't eat your meat, you won't get any pudding.
If you don't believe in God you'll end up in Hell.
If you don't play nice you won't have any friends.
If you don't go to school you won't get a good job.
If you don't get a job you'll end up on the streets.
Break the rules and you'll go to jail.

We are surrounded by coercion. Someone would have to be blind not to see it in every system we are surrounded with, cocooned within. It is how any community works.

Frankly, there are so many really bad coercive strategies imposed upon us that someone letting a kid pretend they are a cat is a pimple on the backside of something bigger than the planet...

So, go for it Kitty Kid, meow...

[Kenj]

We had a Happy hour at our village yesterday afternoon. Supposed to be a Western theme. Had a look in the cupboard and didn't even find a check shirt. Oh gosh!!!

Not wanting to be on the outer I got a marker pen and wrote on a piece of paper that, "Today I identify as a bull"

So saying, I took the old cow along with me!

[Lilith7]

We had a Happy hour at our village yesterday afternoon. Supposed to be a Western theme. Had a look in the cupboard and didn't even find a check shirt. Oh gosh!!!

Not wanting to be on the outer I got a marker pen and wrote on a piece of paper that, "Today I identify as a bull"

So saying, I took the old cow along with me!

So - no doubt tonight's dinner will feature Bull's cojones then??!

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Served cold. Very very cold, lol...

[Kenj]

Served cold. Very very cold, lol...

Typing error applies ..... Replace Bull with Steer.

[Lilith7]

Frozen cojones - how appetising.
Or something...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Definitely needs sauce...