[split] Waipoua Forest

[Lilith7]

You're obviously using the same erroneous definition as Winnie is to support his inflammatory perspectives.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/indigenous 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.c...indigenous
https://www.healthline.com/health/what-d...enous-mean (You're welcome)

From the perspective of the Europeans who first visited New Zealand the Maori would have been construed as the indigenous population of this country.

Native, not indigenous,  there is a clear difference.
Better not talk about the moriori which they wiped out.

Oh fgs! Not again! NO, not quite.



https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-det...riori-myth

"The myth goes something like this: that once upon a time, Aotearoa was home to a race of people called the Moriori. That the Moriori were primitive, inferior folk. And that eventually, when Māori arrived on these shores, they massacred, ate, and completely wiped out the Moriori people.

The myth was busted decades ago - yet it has persisted for generations.
Why?
Because it's convenient, according to Maui Solomon.
Solomon is the chair of Hokotehi Moriori Trust. He, alongside many others with Moriori [i]hokopapa, [/i]has been fighting for correction of the historical record - and for a treaty settlement - since 1988.
And earlier this month, that settlement was finally signed, sealed and delivered.
"The reason [the myth of Moriori extinction] became so powerfully ingrained in the psyche of New Zealanders is because, if Māori could push Moriori out of NZ, then later European migrants could push Māori off their land,” he says.

"It suited the narrative, and it was a justification of European colonisation of Māori land."

In truth, the Moriori are something of a composite people, Solomon says.
"Moriori are the [i]waina pono [/i]- the original inhabitants - of Rēkohu/Chatham Islands.

"According to our oral traditions, the first ancestors arrived directly from eastern Polynesia and settled there.
"Later, waka arrived - most likely from the east coast of the North Island - and found people already in occupation.
"So, according to our traditions, there are two streams of settlement to Rēkohu: one directly from eastern Polynesia, and secondly, most likely from the east coast of the North Island."



For hundreds of years, Moriori lived a peaceful, pacifist existence based on the teachings of tribal elder Nunuku, who banned war and killing from the islands.

Everything changed, however, when two Taranaki iwi - Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama - invaded the islands in 1835.

Solomon says the invaders attacked and killed about 300 of the 2,000 or so Moriori living on the island, and enslaved the rest.

For nearly three decades Moriori lived in desolate conditions.

Banned from speaking their own language, and even from marrying one another, they begged for help from New Zealand's governor George Grey in 1862.

No help was forthcoming.

By 1870, fewer than 200 Moriori remained; more than 90 percent had been wiped out."

[C_T_Russell]

Native, not indigenous,  there is a clear difference.
Better not talk about the moriori which they wiped out.

You (and Winston) used the word Indigenous, which all of the links I posted proved erroneous.

It wouls seem that the genocide of the Moriori was as much a result of colonising impacts on the indigenous Taranaki Maori as a soley interracial conflict.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_genocide Unfortunately such turmoil occurs when invading forces disrupt the status quo of the existing inhabitants.

Maybe so, but the fact is that NZ  has more than one group of indigenous people.

"Indigenous. relating to or being a people who are the original, earliest known inhabitants of a region, or are their descendants"

I was up at the Dargaville museum some years ago and they have a pre maori artifact on display, the carving was not typical of maori carving.
There are also ancient stone walls in the waipoa forest that are not made by maori.
Some believe they were built by Celtics.

[Lilith7]

You (and Winston) used the word Indigenous, which all of the links I posted proved erroneous.

It wouls seem that the genocide of the Moriori was as much a result of colonising impacts on the indigenous Taranaki Maori as a soley interracial conflict.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_genocide Unfortunately such turmoil occurs when invading forces disrupt the status quo of the existing inhabitants.

Maybe so, but the fact is that NZ  has more than one group of indigenous people.

"Indigenous. relating to or being a people who are the original, earliest known inhabitants of a region, or are their descendants"

I was up at the Dargaville museum some years ago and they have a pretty maori artifact on display, the carving was not typical of maori carving.
There are also ancient stone walls in the waipoa forest that are not made by maori.
Some believe they were built by Celtics.

Oh dear! Surely not that ancient chestnut again. Every so often it gets trotted out by racist idiots, keen to prove ancient Celts, Portugese, or indeed anyone at all got here prior to Maori.

They just can't cope with the reality. And Doutre in particular has associations with Nazis.


https://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-...en-letter/



https://keithtonkin.wordpress.com/2016/1...w-zealand/

[C_T_Russell]

Explain who built those stone walls in the waipoa forest? Because we all know that's traditional maori construction!

[Lilith7]

Explain who built those stone walls in the waipoa forest? Because we all know that's traditional maori construction!

There's really no way to put this politely - those people making this truly ridiculous claim are nuts. 
The stone formations are natural.


http://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-t...en-letter/



"Imaginary Celts and real Nazis
When a piece of writing makes sweeping accusations against a host of targets, then readers are entitled to know the identities of its authors.
Both Martin Doutre and Kerry Bolton are conspiracy theorists par exellence – they believe that every aspect of the world is governed by a set of elaborate conspiracies.



The most devastating evidence against the claim of ancient non-Polynesian settlement comes from DNA testing. The article you have published claims that the ancestors of the Maori slaughtered the male Celts who had settled this country and then raped their women, and that present-day Maori therefore have some of the blood of the ancient Celts.
In recent years a series of scholars have run DNA tests on Maori, in an effort to trace their ancestry. These tests confirm that Maori are a Polynesian people, and that Polynesians have their origins in coastal Asia thousands of years ago."

[C_T_Russell]

Explain who built those stone walls in the waipoa forest? Because we all know that's traditional maori construction!

There's really no way to put this politely - those people making this truly ridiculous claim are nuts. 
The stone formations are natural.


http://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-t...en-letter/



"Imaginary Celts and real Nazis
When a piece of writing makes sweeping accusations against a host of targets, then readers are entitled to know the identities of its authors.
Both Martin Doutre and Kerry Bolton are conspiracy theorists par exellence – they believe that every aspect of the world is governed by a set of elaborate conspiracies.



The most devastating evidence against the claim of ancient non-Polynesian settlement comes from DNA testing. The article you have published claims that the ancestors of the Maori slaughtered the male Celts who had settled this country and then raped their women, and that present-day Maori therefore have some of the blood of the ancient Celts.
In recent years a series of scholars have run DNA tests on Maori, in an effort to trace their ancestry. These tests confirm that Maori are a Polynesian people, and that Polynesians have their origins in coastal Asia thousands of years ago."

What do you make of this then?
https://www.propertynoise.co.nz/the-anci...fore-kupe/

"The much discussed “Embargo” document signed by Archaeologist, Michael Taylor and accompanying 14 pages of “something”, which neither the general public nor bona fide research workers were permitted to view until the year 2063. The document states, in the handwriting of Michael Taylor, that ‘Prior consultation requires approval of the Te Roroa- Waipoua Advisory Committee or other appropriate subsequent Te Roroa authority’. The printed line, which would allow bona fide research workers access to the information has been crossed out and overwritten with, ‘restricted until 2063’. The overall intent of this document, as the covering-page for a body of archaeological information deemed “top secret”, could not be clearer. "

Also similar sites have been found in Australia.

I first remember hearing about this on 60 minutes about 20 years ago on the TV.
If you go to the dargaville museum they have a pre maori artifact on display too, Its not a Maori carving, but looks a little Polynesian inspired.
I believe it was discovered buried in the sand dunes in the aera.

[Lilith7]

There's really no way to put this politely - those people making this truly ridiculous claim are nuts. 
The stone formations are natural.


http://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-t...en-letter/



"Imaginary Celts and real Nazis
When a piece of writing makes sweeping accusations against a host of targets, then readers are entitled to know the identities of its authors.
Both Martin Doutre and Kerry Bolton are conspiracy theorists par exellence – they believe that every aspect of the world is governed by a set of elaborate conspiracies.



The most devastating evidence against the claim of ancient non-Polynesian settlement comes from DNA testing. The article you have published claims that the ancestors of the Maori slaughtered the male Celts who had settled this country and then raped their women, and that present-day Maori therefore have some of the blood of the ancient Celts.
In recent years a series of scholars have run DNA tests on Maori, in an effort to trace their ancestry. These tests confirm that Maori are a Polynesian people, and that Polynesians have their origins in coastal Asia thousands of years ago."

What do you make of this then?
https://www.propertynoise.co.nz/the-anci...fore-kupe/

"The much discussed “Embargo” document signed by Archaeologist, Michael Taylor and accompanying 14 pages of “something”, which neither the general public nor bona fide research workers were permitted to view until the year 2063. The document states, in the handwriting of Michael Taylor, that ‘Prior consultation requires approval of the Te Roroa- Waipoua Advisory Committee or other appropriate subsequent Te Roroa authority’. The printed line, which would allow bona fide research workers access to the information has been crossed out and overwritten with, ‘restricted until 2063’. The overall intent of this document, as the covering-page for a body of archaeological information deemed “top secret”, could not be clearer. "

Also similar sites have been found in Australia.

I first remember hearing about this on 60 minutes about 20 years ago on the TV.
If you go to the dargaville museum they have a pre maori artifact on display too, Its not a Maori carving, but looks a little Polynesian inspired.
I believe it was discovered buried in the sand dunes in the aera.

Dear Jaysus! Once again ,this is not "an ancient stone city."

Except in the addled minds of fruitloop nazis like Martin Doutre, who because they're racist are always doing their best to make it look as if white Celts ( who weren't neccesarily all white ) somehow managed to arrive here ahead of Maori.

https://worldhistoryfaq.com/were-the-cel...-or-black/


Around the world there are various odd looking rock formations which are entirely natural.


https://geologyscience.com/gallery/geolo...world/?amp

[C_T_Russell]

What do you make of this then?
https://www.propertynoise.co.nz/the-anci...fore-kupe/

"The much discussed “Embargo” document signed by Archaeologist, Michael Taylor and accompanying 14 pages of “something”, which neither the general public nor bona fide research workers were permitted to view until the year 2063. The document states, in the handwriting of Michael Taylor, that ‘Prior consultation requires approval of the Te Roroa- Waipoua Advisory Committee or other appropriate subsequent Te Roroa authority’. The printed line, which would allow bona fide research workers access to the information has been crossed out and overwritten with, ‘restricted until 2063’. The overall intent of this document, as the covering-page for a body of archaeological information deemed “top secret”, could not be clearer. "

Also similar sites have been found in Australia.

I first remember hearing about this on 60 minutes about 20 years ago on the TV.
If you go to the dargaville museum they have a pre maori artifact on display too, Its not a Maori carving, but looks a little Polynesian inspired.
I believe it was discovered buried in the sand dunes in the aera.

Dear Jaysus! Once again ,this is not "an ancient stone city."

Except in the addled minds of fruitloop nazis like Martin Doutre, who because they're racist are always doing their best to make it look as if white Celts ( who weren't neccesarily all white ) somehow managed to arrive here ahead of Maori.

https://worldhistoryfaq.com/were-the-cel...-or-black/


Around the world there are various odd looking rock formations which are entirely natural.


https://geologyscience.com/gallery/geolo...world/?amp

lol, "natural" stone walls, because stone magically stack up on their own in a straight line?
Its pretty plausible that others could have discovered NZ at an earlier time.
The fact is we have evidence and why are they covering up the data, particularly the carbon dating?
Looks like some shells found were carbon dated prior to arrival of Maori, so thats something.

[Lilith7]

Dear Jaysus! Once again ,this is not "an ancient stone city."

Except in the addled minds of fruitloop nazis like Martin Doutre, who because they're racist are always doing their best to make it look as if white Celts ( who weren't neccesarily all white ) somehow managed to arrive here ahead of Maori.

https://worldhistoryfaq.com/were-the-cel...-or-black/


Around the world there are various odd looking rock formations which are entirely natural.


https://geologyscience.com/gallery/geolo...world/?amp

lol, "natural" stone walls, because stone magically stack up on their own in a straight line?
Its pretty plausible that others could have discovered NZ at an earlier time.
The fact is we have evidence and why are they covering up the data, particularly the carbon dating?
Looks like some shells found were carbon dated prior to arrival of Maori, so thats something.

Have a look at some of those rock formations in the link...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Someone once said to me that square doesn't feature in nature.

They obviously never picked a salvia stem...

[king1]

I know the scouring in rocks can be caused by ice sheets and glaciers... and you only have to look at the Moeraki Boulders to see nature can do some spectacular craft work all on her own

[Praktica]

Dear Jaysus! Once again ,this is not "an ancient stone city."

Except in the addled minds of fruitloop nazis like Martin Doutre, who because they're racist are always doing their best to make it look as if white Celts ( who weren't neccesarily all white ) somehow managed to arrive here ahead of Maori.

https://worldhistoryfaq.com/were-the-cel...-or-black/


Around the world there are various odd looking rock formations which are entirely natural.


https://geologyscience.com/gallery/geolo...world/?amp

lol, "natural" stone walls, because stone magically stack up on their own in a straight line?
Its pretty plausible that others could have discovered NZ at an earlier time.
The fact is we have evidence and why are they covering up the data, particularly the carbon dating?
Looks like some shells found were carbon dated prior to arrival of Maori, so thats something.

In your warped universe, there's always someone covering up the data!

[C_T_Russell]

You still don't explain the stone walls or the suppressed report that won't be public until the 2060s

[Lilith7]

You still don't explain the stone walls or the suppressed report that won't be public until the 2060s

There really is no hope of reasoning. One more time, this utter BS is pushed by racists who are desperate to prove that Maori weren't here first; they come up with daft theory after daft theory, including one in which Maui was 'really Egyptian'    

They apparently fail to comprehend that all they're doing is making themselves appear extremely foolish.


https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comm...cy_theory/

[king1]

You still don't explain the stone walls or the suppressed report that won't be public until the 2060s

There really is no hope of reasoning. One more time, this utter BS is pushed by racists who are desperate to prove that Maori weren't here first; they come up with daft theory after daft theory, including one in which Maui was 'really Egyptian'    

They apparently fail to comprehend that all they're doing is making themselves appear extremely foolish.


https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comm...cy_theory/

in that reddit thread was this comment 

The reports are not embargoed. One section of one of the reports was, but the restriction was lifted in 1996. There's no cover -up.

For which I was able to find this FB link with some more images and a detailed commentary - an interesting read

Nothing is embargoed anymore apparently...

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=...277&type=3

[king1]

Admin Comment

Discussion on Winston Peters is HERE 

This post has been modified by TMMB Moderators.  Unauthorised removal is against the rules.

[C_T_Russell]

You still don't explain the stone walls or the suppressed report that won't be public until the 2060s

There really is no hope of reasoning. One more time, this utter BS is pushed by racists who are desperate to prove that Maori weren't here first; they come up with daft theory after daft theory, including one in which Maui was 'really Egyptian'    

They apparently fail to comprehend that all they're doing is making themselves appear extremely foolish.


https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comm...cy_theory/

First time I heard about a pre maori Chinese settlement!
I thought it was Celtic settlers. Either way, maori never built stone walls and they are not natural formations, looks highly European to me.
Then the Dargaville museum has a pre maori carving found in the sand dunes on display.
I know there are all sorts of other natural formations claimed to be ancient like the stone "wall" in the kaimanawas which is BS.
I should also point out that 60 minutes covered this story way back in the 2000s.
That's when I first heard about it, even a relative of mine who's maori believes there were pre maori settlers, we have talked about it a bit.