James Shaw resigns

[Lilith7]

I do want our prisons vastly reorganised. Did you know most of those inside have difficulty with reading and writing, have clear evidence of untreated mental health issues, and are the victims of intergenerational institutionalisation? We aren't rehabilitating, we are generating new inmates simply by allowing these places to exist. The Scandinavians have a better system, research it and see how much we could improve our own. Soft on crine? We create it by continuing these archaic methods of so called justice.

Just because many disagree with you does not mean we are brainwashed, or ignorant, or not sane, as you put it. It never occurs to you that those countless ones might be right, and you might be the one brainwashed, ignorant, or not sane - but really? To be a balanced thinker, a critical balanced thinker, that is the possibility we all have to allow for - but it requires us to put aside our own fears and examine the facts, thereby risking becoming educated in ways we didn't expect.

Scary thought, and exactly why so many adults become set in their attitudes. And conditioning. Sad really, because learning inspires change, and change is a good thing...

Indeed - there's a reason that the left are seen by some as 'soft on crime', & that's because they tend to more readily understand the causes & try to address them with a view to preventing future crime as far as possible. 

In contrast to the political right which refuses to look at anything other than the tried old 'lock them up & thrown away the key' which just does not work.
Although - it is very good at creating people who tend to continue on with a life of crime, & given the way the right pushes that 'lock 'em up,get tough on crime' whenever there's an election within cooee you do have to wonder whether or not that's their motive - since to always have that handy at election time, they need a high crime rate.

Norway now has Europe's lowest rate of recidivism by being what many on the right would claim is 'soft on crime.'


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013...ike-people


"In closed prisons we keep them locked up for some years and then let them back out, not having had any real responsibility for working or cooking. In the law, being sent to prison is nothing to do with putting you in a terrible prison to make you suffer. The punishment is that you lose your freedom. If we treat people like animals when they are in prison they are likely to behave like animals. Here we pay attention to you as human beings."
A clinical psychologist by profession, Nilsen shrugs off any notion that he is running a holiday camp. I sense his frustration. "You don't change people by power," he says. "For the victim, the offender is in prison. That is justice. I'm not stupid. I'm a realist. Here I give prisoners respect; this way we teach them to respect others. But we are watching them all the time. It is important that when they are released they are less likely to commit more crimes. That is justice for society."

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I'll never forget the young man in the prison van, beaten to a pulp by the others in the back. In hospital he was asked if there was anything he needed. And you know what he wanted?

Crayons.

Yeah, real criminal.

[king1]

Having listened to that interview I can't see too much wrong with the ideas that Chloe was suggesting. A more even distribution in this country's wealth is not "ridiculous garbage", it is creation of a society that is fair to more of us than presently.

Your suggesting that the Greens are dangerous and anyone who considers voting for them is mentally unwell says more about your state of mind than that of Green voters. And there is definitely ignorance at play but not where you're suggesting it is.

The ideology of wealth distribution, I.e taking from the rich and giving to the poor is what we see in communist countries if you study history.
Take a look at Marxism and then what the WEF are proposing.
Long term, it's failed, and the so called elite in these situations always live it up at the expense of those at the bottom, don't for one minute think that you will own nothing and be happy, you will be at the mercy of the state, dependent on them.
Don't complain if insects are all you get on your dinner plate.

This is completely wrong CT...

Redistribution of wealth is a common feature in capitalist economies - tiered tax rates, benefits, minimum wage rates, even pokies and lotto...

But it is not a feature of so called communist societies  because private ownership and income was generally not allowed, everything needed was provided by "the state".  But "the state" are not robbing the rich to pay the poor now are they...

Redistribution of wealth is a feature of capitalism as a means to mitigate the inequities inherent in capitalism - do we want to live in a dog eat dog world or one where we can help others out of poverty, rather than creating poverty?

every socialist country that has subsequently embraced capitalism has seen a significant rise in inequality, many do get left behind...

What you describe as 

" the so called elite in these situations always live it up at the expense of those at the bottom"

is not redistribution of wealth, it is corruption and exploitation...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

I am dependent on the state. Lots of us are as we age, and we are very grateful to have that support. I own very little these days, receive much, and am truly a very happy woman. Strangely enough, I couldn't say that of many times when I was independent, well off, and sitting on a cushion of assets. Nope, to each according to his needs sounds pretty fair to me.

Wealth does not guarantee happiness, but I guess there is only one way to discover the truth of that.

[Lilith7]

I am dependent on the state. Lots of us are as we age, and we are very grateful to have that support. I own very little these days, receive much, and am truly a very happy woman. Strangely enough, I couldn't say that of many times when I was independent, well off, and sitting on a cushion of assets. Nope, to each according to his needs sounds pretty fair to me.

Wealth does not guarantee happiness, but I guess there is only one way to discover the truth of that.

Similar situation for me; in the past it was the norm for families to take care of their elderly members. The alternative was the workhouse. Or starvation.

In slightly more enlightened times, we have various govts providing old age pensions. And unemployment benefits, sickness benefits etc. etc. because of that past.
 Because somehow, politicians were made to understand that a part of their job was to ensure the well being of the people of their country. Not a perfect system by any means - but it worked well.

[C_T_Russell]

I do want our prisons vastly reorganised. Did you know most of those inside have difficulty with reading and writing, have clear evidence of untreated mental health issues, and are the victims of intergenerational institutionalisation? We aren't rehabilitating, we are generating new inmates simply by allowing these places to exist. The Scandinavians have a better system, research it and see how much we could improve our own. Soft on crine? We create it by continuing these archaic methods of so called justice.

Just because many disagree with you does not mean we are brainwashed, or ignorant, or not sane, as you put it. It never occurs to you that those countless ones might be right, and you might be the one brainwashed, ignorant, or not sane - but really? To be a balanced thinker, a critical balanced thinker, that is the possibility we all have to allow for - but it requires us to put aside our own fears and examine the facts, thereby risking becoming educated in ways we didn't expect.

Scary thought, and exactly why so many adults become set in their attitudes. And conditioning. Sad really, because learning inspires change, and change is a good thing...

Well you should be happy about ACT's policy when it comes to this.
They want to rehabilitate inmates and teach them the basic life skills, reading, writing, etc so they can integrate back into society and less likely to reoffend

NZF also have good policies when it comes to this and only want to keep criminals that pose a danger to the public to be locked away. Seems common sense doesn't it?

[king1]

I do want our prisons vastly reorganised. Did you know most of those inside have difficulty with reading and writing, have clear evidence of untreated mental health issues, and are the victims of intergenerational institutionalisation? We aren't rehabilitating, we are generating new inmates simply by allowing these places to exist. The Scandinavians have a better system, research it and see how much we could improve our own. Soft on crine? We create it by continuing these archaic methods of so called justice.

Just because many disagree with you does not mean we are brainwashed, or ignorant, or not sane, as you put it. It never occurs to you that those countless ones might be right, and you might be the one brainwashed, ignorant, or not sane - but really? To be a balanced thinker, a critical balanced thinker, that is the possibility we all have to allow for - but it requires us to put aside our own fears and examine the facts, thereby risking becoming educated in ways we didn't expect.

Scary thought, and exactly why so many adults become set in their attitudes. And conditioning. Sad really, because learning inspires change, and change is a good thing...

Well you should be happy about ACT's policy when it comes to this.
They want to rehabilitate inmates and teach them the basic life skills, reading, writing, etc so they can integrate back into society and less likely to reoffend

NZF also have good policies when it comes to this and only want to keep criminals that pose a danger to the public to be locked away. Seems common sense doesn't it?

Both of which already happen CT, it is nothing new...

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Actually the rehab programmes in our prisons are limited and underfunded. Most prisoners don't have access. Being of an educational bent I would like to see all prisoners sentenced to education in some form or another as a way of shortening their terms of imprisonment. As for ACT and NZFirst policies it would be really good if those get off the paper and into reality. But seeing they require substantial funding, I aint holding my breath.

[zqwerty]

Management and middle-management generally will obfuscate and gas-light any situation to give the impression that they are in charge and running the show, meanwhile the existing workers who are actually keeping things running will continue to do so in spite of virtually useless upper level leaders.

The present government is a good example of this in practice, triply so.

[Lilith7]

ACT & National are very keen to help educate both children & prisoners, & very keen to have an excellent health system.

As long as there's money to be made, anyway...

[zqwerty]

Yes completely correct, with National et al it is all about money and that alone, don't be fooled by the fancy words, money for them and their mates is all it is about; all else is them pulling the wool over your eyes.

[C_T_Russell]

Actually the rehab programmes in our prisons are limited and underfunded. Most prisoners don't have access. Being of an educational bent I would like to see all prisoners sentenced to education in some form or another as a way of shortening their terms of imprisonment. As for ACT and NZFirst policies it would be really good if those get off the paper and into reality. But seeing they require substantial funding, I aint holding my breath.

Well this govt promises to address those concerns, and unlike Labour, they are not going to be handing the money over to the mongrel mob to fund their "rehab" programs.

[Lilith7]

Actually the rehab programmes in our prisons are limited and underfunded. Most prisoners don't have access. Being of an educational bent I would like to see all prisoners sentenced to education in some form or another as a way of shortening their terms of imprisonment. As for ACT and NZFirst policies it would be really good if those get off the paper and into reality. But seeing they require substantial funding, I aint holding my breath.

Well this govt promises to address those concerns, and unlike Labour, they are not going to be handing the money over to the mongrel mob to fund their "rehab" programs.

We would do far better to go the way of Portugal; they decriminalised drugs over a deacde ago now & its worked extremely well for them with far fewer people dying due to an overdose.

[Praktica]

Actually the rehab programmes in our prisons are limited and underfunded. Most prisoners don't have access. Being of an educational bent I would like to see all prisoners sentenced to education in some form or another as a way of shortening their terms of imprisonment. As for ACT and NZFirst policies it would be really good if those get off the paper and into reality. But seeing they require substantial funding, I aint holding my breath.

Well this govt promises to address those concerns, and unlike Labour, they are not going to be handing the money over to the mongrel mob to fund their "rehab" programs.

What will they do, to reduce crime and recidivism - that rightwing governments haven't tried, and failed at, before?

[king1]

Well this govt promises to address those concerns, and unlike Labour, they are not going to be handing the money over to the mongrel mob to fund their "rehab" programs.

What will they do, to reduce crime and recidivsm - that rightwing governments haven't tried, and failed at, before?

 Bootcamps!

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Yeah... those work SO well...

[Lilith7]

Yeah... those work SO well...

They have to know the damned things don't work; even politiciams aren't that stupid. And they must be aware of the possible pitfalls too.


https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/4792...are-lawyer

"The National Party is ignoring the weight of evidence against enforced military-style camps for young offenders, according to a lawyer who has represented survivors of some of New Zealand's worst cases of abuse in state care.

Amanda Hill said forcing kids into boot camps would not stop them reoffending and could lead to more situations where they were neglected or maltreated.

"It's been going on for decades, this idea that we just punish harder, and the crime will stop, which is misplaced - it doesn't."
Hill had presented evidence on behalf of many survivors of Whakapakari, a boot-camp style programme on Great Barrier Island where Child, Youth, and Family sent 'difficult' youths.
Many of these youths were abused by staff members or fellow residents."