S. Wiles & S. Hendy, claim against Auckland uni

[Magoo]

Medical staff are already making these terrible decisions on a daily basis with patients, there is no need for us to increase that level of stress by creating pariahs on our covid wards.

Karma means those who have chosen not to comply with the vaccination programme will suffer the consequences sooner or later, and those who had no choice already live with those consequences.

Life was never meant to be fair.

its not the medical staff choosing who gets a bed, in the case of voluntary Covid it is the patient who has chosen this path, using their vast medical knowledge and superior decision making skills. no decisions left at all for the caregivers.

i dont do karma, if i did i would be a small smouldering pile of ash. they made their choices free and clear. they have precluded themselves from society (whom most of which they bitterly dislike) and made themselves pariahs, i didnt even have to get out of bed.

i dont do autopsies either. i like to nip the problem in the bud before it costs innocents their lives. we know it to be highly contagious. we know this, anybody who cannot be vaccinated who dies, thats on us for failing to protect them.

life wasnt meant to be fair, so if the voluntary unvaxxed feel put out by these missives then...too fucking bad.  


,

[harm_less]

Medical staff are already making these terrible decisions on a daily basis with patients, there is no need for us to increase that level of stress by creating pariahs on our covid wards.

Karma means those who have chosen not to comply with the vaccination programme will suffer the consequences sooner or later, and those who had no choice already live with those consequences.

Life was never meant to be fair.

its not the medical staff choosing who gets a bed, ......

In the midst of expelling a purposely unvaccinated patient from their hospital environment who but medical staff are going to undertake this action. You're missing the reality of the actual situation.

"Isn't there something you can do?":

[Lilith7]

i think a hospital is the last place a self inflicted covid patient should be.
hospitals are full of vulnerable people that dont need covid to add to their misery.
think of the babieeeessssssss.
they should be made to stay home and recuperate, or die, whatever.

I can't agree with that. Foolishness has never invariably resulted in certain death.

We're humans, not robots & so we take stupid risks, do daft stuff like jumping off bridges & out of planes, we ignore the best advice & eat all the wrong things, or drink too much, or fall for daft conspiracy theories.
Anyone who's ill whether with covid or some other ailment should never be denied medical treatment including hospitalisation if needed on the grounds of stupidity, even if that means they need to be confined to one area of a hospital for the safety of other patients.

If we're overwhelmed by thousands of serious cases of covid, then that might need to be reconsidered but for now those people are every bit as entitled to medical care as the rest of us.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

The fact is medical staff, here and overseas make life and death decisions for those they are treating. Or not treating. It is not the place of governments or anyone else to make those decisions, but sometimes they must be made.

The choice to remain unvaccinated is a complication a covid patient places upon their own health. Only a doctor can decide if that complication is going to mean resources devoted to the care of that patient are of no value and are better directed to someone else.

It cannot be a political decision. And it cannot be applied across the board. It can only be an educated decision by a trained professional who has access to the individual's state of health, like any other diagnostic assessment.

[Lilith7]

The fact is medical staff, here and overseas make life and death decisions for those they are treating. Or not treating. It is not the place of governments or anyone else to make those decisions, but sometimes they must be made.

The choice to remain unvaccinated is a complication a covid patient places upon their own health. Only a doctor can decide if that complication is going to mean resources devoted to the care of that patient are of no value and are better directed to someone else.

It cannot be a political decision. And it cannot be applied across the board. It can only be an educated decision by a trained professional who has access to the individual's state of health, like any other diagnostic assessment.

Agreed; it has to be a medical decision, & each case decided separately by Drs.
Heaven help us all if it was in the hands of politicians.

[Magoo]

Very well then. Despite knowing what risks they pose to the vulnerable we will show empathy and care to those inhumane animals that decide not just to not get vaxxed, and try to get others to do the same, and belittle those who do get vaxxed. Now when these parasites actually kill an innocent can we charge them with murder?
That they knowingly entered a space unvaxxed and carrying COVID and managed to kill someone, can we charge the hospital for placing that person in danger.
It's going to happen, I'm just wondering what and who will answer to the deaths when they come? The blessed decision making medical community? The antivaxxers?
Will the warm fuzzies you get from coddling these arseholes be enough to salve the parents loss? We could send a card with best wishes I suppose.

It's going to happen. When it does I am going to be very very unforgiving the those that refuse to vaccinate. They need to be isolated and monitored with ankle bracelets like criminals. Potential killers all of them.
I don't want to cohabitate with them. I don't care about fair or compassionate to anyone willing to jeopardize someone else's life. Why would I?

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Fortunately, you are not in any position to choose, unless you isolate yourself.

There are rabid antivaxxers who make death threats, send hate mail, start protests, and do all sorts of ridiculous things in the pursuit of their antisocial aims. The rest of us have a choice, we can become like them, or we can be better than them.

I prefer to comply with the health measures promoted by those who know best, but I refuse point blank to become like those who choose not to do so.

The one is as bad as the other.

[king1]

reality should be enough for most antivaxxers / vaccine hesitant

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/...vaccinated

[king1]

If there one thing good about this pandemic, it has brought to the fore and allowed everyone to identify the flakes in their inner circle...

[Oldfellah]

There have been many stories of antivaxxers dying of covid and on their deathbed have either denied that its covid or have said ok give me the vaccine, they have left family who only after seeing the truth have pleaded with others to get vaccinated and letting them know that its not a hoax, but do the nutters take any notice .... shit no!

[Olive]

If there one thing good about this pandemic, it has brought to the fore and allowed everyone to identify the flakes in their inner circle...

I agree.  It's something of a relief.   I have shed a few friends and acquaintances with whom I previously rubbed along, and some whom I had previously regarded as slightly dim but well-intentioned.   Also several relatives-by-marriage who have vanished right down the rabbit hole.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Editing our relationships can be a difficult thing at the time, but oh the relief afterwards...

[Oldfellah]

If there one thing good about this pandemic, it has brought to the fore and allowed everyone to identify the flakes in their inner circle...

I agree.  It's something of a relief.   I have shed a few friends and acquaintances with whom I previously rubbed along, and some whom I had previously regarded as slightly dim but well-intentioned.   Also several relatives-by-marriage who have vanished right down the rabbit hole.

I wish my ex wife would vanish down a rabbit hole 

[Lilith7]

Fortunately, you are not in any position to choose, unless you isolate yourself.

There are rabid antivaxxers who make death threats, send hate mail, start protests, and do all sorts of ridiculous things in the pursuit of their antisocial aims. The rest of us have a choice, we can become like them, or we can be better than them.

I prefer to comply with the health measures promoted by those who know best, but I refuse point blank to become like those who choose not to do so.

The one is as bad as the other.

Indeed - becoming like some of the worst of the anti vaxxers is every bit as bad.

[Magoo]

Fortunately, you are not in any position to choose, unless you isolate yourself.

There are rabid antivaxxers who make death threats, send hate mail, start protests, and do all sorts of ridiculous things in the pursuit of their antisocial aims. The rest of us have a choice, we can become like them, or we can be better than them.

I prefer to comply with the health measures promoted by those who know best, but I refuse point blank to become like those who choose not to do so.

The one is as bad as the other.

Indeed - becoming like some of the worst of the anti vaxxers is every bit as bad.

Tis not. It's an immutable law. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Every vicious death threat antivaxxer out there needs to know there are people just as rabid as them at the other end of the scale.. Because there are. 

Hindsight after doing nothing shows a callous disregard for the safety of those that cannot speak or defend themselves with vaccine.
Ill say it. Keep those animals away from the vulnerable. Isolate and monitor them, they are untrustworthy, illogical and a danger to our weakest citizens.
I don't care if they don't like it, because they don't care about anyone else.
I dont care about their rights. I don't care about equality or fairness.

I'm not alone. Far from it. I'm quite moderate compared to some out there. I've lost family to this with no recourse. Nothing I could do 10000km away. Now it's at my front door and I can do something then I will. I am not prepared to lose any more family or friends to softcock excuses and bleeding heart empathists happy to sit at the bottom of the cliff in their ambulances pissing sunshine and rainbows at those who would harm us. 
These are tough times, shit or get off the pot because tough decisions have to be made. Not time for hand wringing and angst.

[Oh_hunnihunni]

Lol, I am laughing because this is all so familiar to me. When I lost my husband to an idiot drunk driver, who walked... I became a zealot in the pursuit of drink drivers. I would happily imagine the bullet in the back of the head option, the crush the car with them in scenario, or public hangings. I had no room for anything resembling understanding. Blow in the machine, go over the limit and bang - end of story..

But then slowly, time rubbed off the sharp bits, and I came to understand that life isn't fair, sometimes awful stuff happens and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop it happening again and again. Eventually I just had to stop being so angry and focus on more positive things. Don't get me wrong, I still despise people who drink and drive. I despise people who drive like fools. And I weep everytime the road toll goes up because I know how it feels to lose someone that way, bone deep, life long.

But we just can't achieve anything positive by ranting, anymore than we can by hand wringing with or without angst. It doesn't win hearts and minds. Some hearts and minds are just beyond winning. And that is why I think humanity is doomed.

So, all we can do is the stuff that is positive for us and leave the rest of them to go to hell in their own handbaskets.

Not our monkeys, not our circus.

[Magoo]

Good post ohh.
We're there people actively encouraging people to drink and drive?
Were there those who were bullied into getting drunk and endangering others?? Are there still police roadblocks and mandatory breath testing?. I believe there was and still is.
Why can we actively criminally pursue a drunk driver for the threat they pose, yet let the unvaccinated continue to threaten our weakest?
Is our duty of responsibility to drivers and road users greater than the safety of the general populace? We jail those who continue to drink and drive, then act with impunity to another equally dangerous practice? Are we picking one way of dying as acceptable (COVID) but not another (at the hands of a drunk)?
As I say and will continue to say, this is very real threat and the time for 'nice' and 'kind' is long past. They know the risks the same as the rest of us and willingly refuse to abide.
They don't give a shit about us or our families, they are killers in our midst and we endorse them. Err on the side of caution, seperate and monitor. It's a lot easier and safer than the alternative.

[Lilith7]

Indeed - becoming like some of the worst of the anti vaxxers is every bit as bad.

Tis not. It's an immutable law. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Every vicious death threat antivaxxer out there needs to know there are people just as rabid as them at the other end of the scale.. Because there are. 

Hindsight after doing nothing shows a callous disregard for the safety of those that cannot speak or defend themselves with vaccine.
Ill say it. Keep those animals away from the vulnerable. Isolate and monitor them, they are untrustworthy, illogical and a danger to our weakest citizens.
I don't care if they don't like it, because they don't care about anyone else.
I dont care about their rights. I don't care about equality or fairness.

I'm not alone. Far from it. I'm quite moderate compared to some out there. I've lost family to this with no recourse. Nothing I could do 10000km away. Now it's at my front door and I can do something then I will. I am not prepared to lose any more family or friends to softcock excuses and bleeding heart empathists happy to sit at the bottom of the cliff in their ambulances pissing sunshine and rainbows at those who would harm us. 
These are tough times, shit or get off the pot because tough decisions have to be made. Not time for hand wringing and angst.

"Animals?"
There it is - the 'othering' which seems to crop up so often. Othering has been used frequently in the past & often with tragic consequences.
These are not 'animals' - these are humans exactly as we are, who for whatever reasons have a very different view to our own. They may well be idiotic, but that's a very human characteristic as evidenced by the oddness of various religious beliefs over the centuries.

I disagree with their views & I'm deeply concerned about the possible consequences, but I do not believe that all anti vaxxers ought to be taken out & shot. Especially when its extremely likely that many of these anti vaxxers (if not all) will eventually have no other option than to change their views as understanding begins to dawn on even the densest of them.
They too have families, some of whom will almost certainly get ill & possibly even die.

[Magoo]

No I'm not for shooting anyone either. Seems a bit drastic.
Animals? You tell me. What would I call someone who knowingly spreads a contagious disease on purpose? Sociopath? Murderer? At the very least, dangerous.
I can go into a mosque and give 55 Muslims COVID and that's not a terrorist attack then what is?. They have weaponised their bodies based on lies and misinformation, and we know their intelligence to be sub par, their decision making skills worse and their antisocial sociopathy overt.and dedicated.
To dehumanize them is entirely appropriate, to separate and monitor them not untoward.
If I might quote monsieur macron "I want to really piss them off.' As I say I'm not alone and neither is he.
The big "reset" might not be quite what the Trump/Canon/antivax cult has in mind.

[Lilith7]

No I'm not for shooting anyone either. Seems a bit drastic.
Animals? You tell me. What would I call someone who knowingly spreads a contagious disease on purpose? Sociopath? Murderer? At the very least, dangerous.
I can go into a mosque and give 55 Muslims COVID and that's not a terrorist attack then what is?. They have weaponised their bodies based on lies and misinformation, and we know their intelligence to be sub par, their decision making skills worse and their antisocial sociopathy overt.and dedicated.
To dehumanize them is entirely appropriate, to separate and monitor them not untoward.
If I might quote monsieur macron "I want to really piss them off.' As I say I'm not alone and neither is he.
The big "reset" might not be quite what the Trump/Canon/antivax cult has in mind.

The point though is that those who'd even think of doing such a thing believe that covid isn't really a pandemic, isn't likely to kill people & so wouldn't harm anyone - they believe its all just a hoax of some kind.

Those who see it as a means of killing people in order to reduce population presumably by wicked evil govts don't seem the sort, AFAIK who are keen to spread it themselves. Thankfully.

And no, its never right to dehumanise people regardless of how utterly bizarre & daft their beliefs might be.